Better Coffee..............

...and quite a long run-up on a main line. Expresso coffee can be identified by the two white discs, one at either end of the latte spoon. I prefer a more sedate espresso.

Being fussy about the beans will, as discussed above, make the difference - some suppliers (Dwyfor, for example, oft-seen across North Wales) will also train your baristas. Quite how much of the coffee-house experience you can put on rails will take some working out, but in the age of Trip Advisor, a picture of a cappuccino is worth a thousand likes.

(Speaking of which, we called at a well-known tourist spot in Gwynedd last week (non-railway) and were charged £2.70 for a badly-rinsed mug of decaff instant; a thousand words might assuage annoyance rather better than a blurred 'selfie' in this case...)

 

I've tried to block out the memory of MaxPax equiv coffee and a welsh cake with margarine for an eye-watering sum in the Welsh Highland's Pullman. A cup of tea and nice homemade cake would've been vastly preferable.

Simon

 

You we're lucky. When I travelled on the Welsh Highland we weren't even offered any food or drinks until two hours into the journey. Hence review on TripAdvisor (1*), and I won't even try and ask HWMBO if we can vist again. I cannot emphasis enough the importance of good quality catering if you want repeat business, and that includes the coffee - all part of the experience.

 

There is good money to be made by 'in house' catering - providing a good choice is given and simplicity is the keynote. Of course staff efficiency and courtesy is also essential.
The Paignton line has coffee house type operations at both Paignton and Kingswear, Paignton attracts local shoppers as well as rail passengers. They have also opened an outlet in Dartmouth I understand. All staff of course are fully paid and not volunteer.

 

I'm with you there! It's worth getting off the train at Blue Anchor (WSR) and Berwyn (Llangollen) for the tea and cake (based on 2016 experiences)!

 

I suspect I'd get strange looks if I asked for a bacon roll with tamarind sauce. After a few minutes, I suppose, there might be sudden comprehension: "ohhh...you mean a bacon *bap*!"

Seriously, the worst thing to do in this area is to spend on the equipment and skimp on the consumables. A former employer of mine spent a four-figure sum on three expensive coffee machines, one for each floor of the building; then bought a bulk load of apparently the cheapest coffee beans they could find. They had a distinct taste of burnt fish.

 

If anyone wants it, Dusty Ape Coffee were kind enough to send me an e-mail outlining how good quality coffee can be provided 'on train'

 

Sadly I fear your former employee is an utterly typical Briton! Those who have joined this thread alas are not. I will give you another example. The ice-cream I referred to in an earlier post also gets sold in a couple of extremely high end London shops and gets praise in "Tatler". There it is called "The Empress's Peach Pudding" as it is derived from an ancient Chinese recipe. For sale at a preserved railway it is referred to as "Peach Melba"! Still absolutely splendid though.

Paul H

 

I'd strongly disagree with that. What makes people visit a preserved railway in the first place? I'd argue that in part it is because, for a day, they want to feel they have left the modern world, with its corporatism and identikit shops and high streets, behind. So while it may be an illusion, they at least want to feel that they are not a part of that world for a few hours - even if, on the way home, they then stop off at a service station for fuel and while they are there get a Costa Express latte.

As for food and drink more generally, I can't really claim to be a coffee aficionado (though I do like cake ) but I would say as a general rule - quality sells. Always difficult in establishments that suffer big peaks and troughs in demand throughout the day, with a clientele who can be time-critical, and possibly a high degree of seasonal staff (so less continuity / organisational memory). So good catering is clearly not easy in those conditions, but surely the aspiration should be for better than a stale scone or a sandwich with turned up corners?

I wonder whether too many railways are too guilty of looking at their immediate railway neighbours for benchmarking, rather than the wider leisure sector? "Well, the Much Snoring and Little Meddling RPS still sell sliced bread sandwiches with limp lettuce and they are doing OK, so that must be alright for us - now pass the Stork, I need to butter these sarnies". Whereas a few visits to local National Trust or English Heritage properties would reveal a very different catering operation, with quite an emphasis on quality and - new foodie buzzword, but why not? - provenance.

Tom

 

Hear, hear. If after church coffee is now properly brewed, rather than fairtrade instant (think Nescafe with morals), surely preserved railways can offer something decent. If staff training is a concern, there are plenty of semi-automatic machines that don't need high levels of expertise and will make the best of whatever beans you choose to give them. At home, we have one with decent beans (Stokes of Lincoln, for those who are interested); at work a similar but heftier machine - though the beans aren't so great.

 

While not a coffee person (maybe the odd mocha with a shed load of sugar), it is clear to all that the customer must feel like they are getting value for money. £2.40 for an iffy cup of tea is really not on (I'm looking at you XC).
Same for food, if people feel they are paying over the odds they will go elsewhere. For instance, Kidderminster has a number of options with a Tesco express (for sandwiches) and two chip shops near to the station, not to mention a diner cafe round the corner which actually offers you choice.

 

I don't merely "wonder" if this is the case Tom, I'm damn near certain it is. In particular, I think they should submit themselves to external assessment and act upon what the assessor's report says. The temptation to use "Tripadvisor" as a cost free alternative to this is not a good one as it is amateur and liable to erratic markings which can veer from excessive adulation to unwarranted criticism.

Paul H

 

I think there is also another factor at work, but I'm not quite sure what it's linked to. When I go for a coffee, I look for certain things - and have done for 20 odd years. Real coffee and decent baking are high on the list.

Too many railways, for too many years, have assumed that the BR era coffee offer is adequate. They don't get my money, because I won't buy the product. My wife is the same about tea - if they don't sell Earl Grey, she won't buy.

When Ellis' opened at Rothley, the difference between the on train/on station offering and what they were doing was really noticeable. So was the impact on my wallet.

 

Surprised at this. Whenever I've travelled on the WHR I've been offered coffee early on the journey. I always take a samll bottle of brandy with me to pep up the coffee.

 

You can find my TA review quiet easily as it is the only 1*. And all caused by lack of sustenance which turned the whole journey into an endurance test. As I said previously, get the catering (and coffee!) right if you want repeat business, and to me quality is as important as price. I wouldn't pay 10p for a maxi pack but will happily pay up to £3 for a decent cup of coffee. I have a beans to coffee machine at home and that sets the benchmark.

Dave

 

I was telling my darling partner about this thread the other day, and she pointed out that when travelling long distances we will routinely detour to a National Trust property purely to have a meal, but we would never do that with any of the preserved railways we know (the one exception being Buckfastleigh and then purely because it's not a detour - the good does not approach National Trust quality).

One aspect that almost nobody is good at, though - which might be detouring the thread a little - is food for young children. Universally (including NT et al), it's either a "snack box", or "X + chips" - and we have possibly the only 2-year-old in Britain who refused to eat chips.

Contracting out doesn't have to mean a branded chain. The same catering firm runs the cafes at Bristol Museums, Bristol Zoo, and Salisbury Cathedral; and they are very good for both food and coffee, although their cake range could be better.

 

Yes but..........

Going back to the VisitEngland scheme as it is the most convenient benchmark and one which I know to be vigourously and professionally assessed, it will be seen that precisely three get the "quality food and drink" accolade. This is out of more than 1000 attractions but does not include the twenty or so which receive the overall gold. None of the three happen to be National Trust properties although several come up to the basic standard.

This suggests that there is a problem regarding catering at Visitor Attractions generally.

Paul H

 

Not sure how many visitors would judge somewhere by a Visit England scheme. Food is more subjective than a list of criteria. What does "quality food and drink" actually mean?!

Heritage railways might struggle to out-source their catering due to their opening hours. Not sure many companies would be interested in Sunday/weekend-only for part of the year.

 

Well, up to a point, Lord Copper. It could equally mean that there is a problem with the VisitEngland scheme in that it is measuring things that are actually not the prime concern of most visitors.

In a previous life, I was asked to do a number of "mystery shopper" visits to local hotels as part of a Local Tourism Partnership accreditation. It was quite fun and I got to spend a few nights away from home gratis, but one of the things that struck me was that the questionnaire I subsequently had to fill in asked questions about aspects of the hotel that I wasn't really fussed about, whereas things that were significant to me weren't asked about on my feedback report!

So it is just a word of caution about schemes based on mystery shopping or similar - they can sometimes rate an attraction against a list of criteria that the person devising the scheme thinks are important, rather than what actually is important to real visitors. In the case of NT properties, I can't remember ever being disappointed by the food, despite the seeming failure of the vast majority to get a "quality food and drink" accolade. Which ought to tell you something about the criteria being used, and whether they are realistic.

Tom

 

I can think of times I've been disappointed by the food at NT properties, one in particular on many occasions. I'm not sure how it would have featured on a questionnaire, but it was noticeable that friends who also use the same property regularly tend to avoid the cakes.