Torbay Express 2016

Might not be, but in the past the public never got to know what the reports actually said in full at the time. These days the information gets out there so we'd probably know if Big Railway ignored sensible solutions. Looking at what goes on 'inside' the system, I haven't noticed much change since the Head of NR announced he was appalled at the late identification of clearance issues and late publication of timings and would do something about it ASAP. Talk's cheap.

Going into too much thread drift again.

 

Agree on thread drift. The best consultants are those with no knowledge of the business. They come at it with fresh eyes and lots of questions. A good one can then distil the issues and propose changes that mean something.

On topic, I just feel for those who had an unfulfilled day yesterday and may never try mainline steam again. As ever THE most important person is the customer. Without them we have no chance. The old business maxim of the best prospect for future business lies with your current customers remains true.

 

We could go on forever about whether there is any solution to the problem of last minute loco cancellations, but the hard fact is that customers are committing substantial amounts of their time and money - to go on the Torbay Express involves not just the fare (£105 per person at least), but with an 08.00 departure there will (unless you live in Bristol) be either an early morning drive or at least one night's hotel bill plus travel to and from Bristol. That sort of outlay will make most people unwilling to accept excuses, and uninterested in how hard the organisers and staff are working - not unreasonably they expect to get what they have paid for. It is so British ('we don't do customer service') to refer to terms and conditions, and say 'hard luck'.

It is generally accepted that recreational steam will not be sustainable by just enthusiasts, and it is necessary to attract 'normals'. The attitude that customers will put up with anything because it is a 'good cause' just won't do. It would increase cost and fares, but I wonder whether promoters can insure against these cancellations to cover the cost of full refunds and indeed compensation for collateral expenses.

 

The problem this year is a real shortage of mainline steam locos in working order, especially in the South where only 34046/52 and 60163 are serviceable at the moment. In the past couple of years Torbay Express have covered themselves by having two of the Hosking fleet based at Bristol. This year there is only one so any failure means no alternative to diesel. While we enthusiasts have an "oh well these things happen" attitude and understand the complexities of maintaining steam locos, the general public are not sympathetic. Just read TripAdvisor reviews for Steam Dreams, RTC etc.... The main reason for one star ("terrible") reviews has been the lack of steam traction. Most of the reviewers find it inconceivable that no back-up steam loco is available to cover for failures. That may sound like an unrealistic expectation but it's what the paying public expect. I know of no other form of entertainment where you part with substantial sums of money and are expected to accept that you may not get what you paid for!

 

A couple of points.

1. No affordable insurance known to man will protect quite a few on here against the risk they view as the greatest, namely a box on the back/front and something ranging between occasional shoveage and a show pony.

2. I speed read the recent interview with D Smith and P Marshall in my local station W H Smiths. My impression was that they would like to aim at the model of running repeat itineraries out of a few bases. I agree that the best form of insurance would be to have a reserve loco at each base. At least that keeps the revenue within the family. But I wonder what it costs.

3. I worry about whether the market is going to support the price rises which are already in the pipeline. RTC's base standard class price is set to rise from £89/95 to £109 this autumn.

 

Expected that. Won't object to paying it for 'Pure Steam'.

 

My apologies. I was primarily referring to 46233 being unassisted on the NWCE. There was a diesel waiting at Llandudno Junction and that dragged us out of Llandudno and nothing else. It did not sit on the back all day. It worked LE on the day to do a job. As Holyhead is "closed" on a Sunday we ended up watching the Duchess play with her stock in readindess for an unassisted return.

Maybe you can transfer this discussion to the correct NWCE thread?

 

I'll take that as a "no" then. As usual "those who can, do. Those who won't, are full of "bright" ideas."

 

It wasn't a no. Perhaps you can get someone to read the rest of the post for you as they must have been busy when you asked the first time. You are so intolerant of other peoples views and dismissive of suggestions and quite happy with the status quo. Given the right package I would use my skills to help develop a new way, but I have to earn an income and it would be an industry wide thing so a big job. I work eneabling change in many organisations such as the NHS who are even more resistant to change and like the status quo.

Now what are YOU going to offer to do???

 

You've hit the nail on the head,
I mean not many other companies would even try to get Tornado to Bristol for another trip at less then 12 hours notice, long weekend for the loco and the crew,

Yesterday wasn't the best of days ,but pathfinder tried to make the best of it,
Better then getting there at 8am and no train being there, or putting out the news that another loco was on the way and yet there's still a diesel on the front, Was stuck behind a rock and a hard place, the kicking some people have been dishing out is uncalled for and disgraceful to say the least,

 

A) it's not me making a song and dance about the TE
and
B) I'm already doing something. Three cylinders, green and goes by the name of 92 Squadron.

 

But why is YOUR way better? It is a sad fact of life that invariably consultants work for the peace of mind of accountants, not for the greater good of the organisation paying them. I really don't think that you can argue with that point.

 

Snipped

The ticket office clerk at BTM Sunday morning knew Saturday evening that the trip was diesel. The earlycomers didn't believe him. The TBX people turned up about 0720- 2 went on the service train, presumably to Bath to forewarn the passengers there.......

Sounds mad but a heritage diesel on standby might recoup more "pay on the day" money and allow more to be returned to the rightly aggrieved steam enthusiasts.

But that is surely too far thinking outside the box, if the pun is pardoned. Let's just stick to T's and C's and to hell with the consequences.

 

What happened to the Riveira 47's in previous years ?, have GBRf had all of them ?.

 

Sounds mad, But I said to my friends yesterday, Can't believe I'm saying this but its a shame riviera don't have a stand by Duff (Class 47) anymore.

 

They were sold to Rail operations group a few weeks back,
"
ROG have purchased five class 47/8 locomotives from Riviera Trains. The locomotives will support new ROG train operating contracts and passenger charter train operations. The locomotives are fitted with Electric Train Supply (ETS) to provide heating and air conditioning for passenger coaching stock vehicles.

The image captures two of the locomotives stabled outside ROG’s new Derby offices.

June 2016"

http://www.railopsgroup.co.uk/news/

 

You don't know much about consulting and change then. When the current situation is not delivering what is promised and people (customers) are getting angry and walking away, other ways have to be tried. Can my way be better? I don't know as I have not the access to review processes. Could it be better? Well as an example in one NHS organisation I have worked with, in the next three years about 40 old ladies will not suffer a devastating hip fracture and the NHS will save about £250k per year. Did I meet resistance to change? Yes. Did I press on? Yes. So yes alternatives can be worked on and have the potential to do better. Big Al and Hatherton Hall up pages have made some sensible suggestions. Probably consolidation is the way forward. But again, think of the chap who has just hit 65 and retired and Sunday was his big celebration. He remembers steam in his youth. He was looking for a nostalgic steam hauled trip. He got a modern diesel, pulling old coaches and £15. Anybody really happy about that scenario???

 

You really need to relax. I know a whole lot about consulting and change, and the one thing you don't do is shout about your achievements - it's your job, nobody cares if you did it well, they only care if you sucked and didn't do very well...

There is a clear understanding on a steam tour that you might not get as advertised, purely because of the nature of the beast. Given LSLs reputation for trying to fix things (34046 last week) and get things going how do you know they were not still trying to sort out the problem?

Disappointing for the passengers? Absolutely - but nothing you can do. We don't have sheds filled with class 7 Locos with two in steam at any one time ready to go at a moments notice - it's just not possible from an organisational, financial and staffing point of view.

Even with my rudimentary knowledge of the inner workings of locomotive support I can work that one out - it's obvious!!