Homes needed for 4cig and 4vop

all of em (except suicide, unless I am posting from the other side)

(dont you just love autocorrect on smartphones.....)

 

So exactly how many Mrs Knowwun's were there at the same time?

 

only two....Bigamy is having two wives, having three wives is called Madness.

 

The 306 was, as far as I know, in excellent condition when the NRM took it over. I had been on two Ian Allen railtours on it and great fun they were. It now doesn't work and as far as I know is stored in the open. It isn't going to be around for long that way, even though, since it is 25kv and not Mk1 it is one of the few units that could do some main line running. It even has power doors. I'm glad there are a couple of 302 trailers at Mangapps - I'm sorry to say that living now on the other side of the country I haven't been there.

None of this addresses the point, however. Are we a heritage movement or just an entertainment? If the former we must make some attempt to retain a reasonably representative selection of equipment. The NRM in particular had an excellent opportunity with the 306 which seems to have been ignored.

 

While it isn't possible to save an example of everything, noteworthy multiple units do deserve to be preserved and as this is not something that is sustainable within the private sector, then it is up to the NRM to step up to the plate. Since they frequently say they shouldn't be duplicating things provided by the private sector then logically they should be preserving things that are not viable in the private sector, providing they are judged to be significant.

That said a Mk1 is a Mk1 even if it is self propelled or designed for use with other units or a handful specific diesel classes, that alone does not make them have historical importance, which makes them vulnerable to the vagaries of market forces and unfortunately having incompatible braking and heating systems makes them (as has been said before) unattractive to established railways, while the difficulties with the incompatibilities are beyond emerging railways to overcome.

If I were the owner of one of these units I would put my resources into fitting firstly steam heat and secondly converting them to vacuum or dual braking to get them a future. Otherwise if I didn't have such resources (and had just bought it because that's the easy bit) and no business plan I'd cut my losses and send for scrap.

History will show that there are more worthy targets for preservation coming up in the future such as 150s, 153s, 156s, 158s and HSTs, as it can be argued that all these represent development in construction method and materials which Mk1 EMU stock does not.

Sawdust.

 

This was an example of EMU preservation.......



LNER 59604 Glossop/Hadfield EMU (scrapped) built 1954


LNER 59604 Glossop/Hadfield EMU (scrapped) built 1954



Present Location Midland Railway Centre (scrapped)
County Location Derbyshire
Designed For LNER
Built by BRCW
Type DTSO
First Number 59604
Later Numbers M59604M
Gauge 4ft 8 1/2in
Wheel Arrangement 4-w bogies
Original Underframe Yes
Original Bogies/Wheelsets Yes
Additional Notes 3-car EMU (Glossop/Hadfield). P 1985 by W Yorks Transport Museum Trust, kept briefly at Dinting then stored at Bradford Hammerton St till 1989, then MRT: resold twice 1995: then scrapped by owner at Booths, Rotherham. See also 59404, 59504.
Owner South Staffs Locomotives Ltd
External Structural Condition Satisfactory
Internal Structural Condition Satisfactory
Underframe Condition Satisfactory
External Finish Satisfactory
Internal Finish Satisfactory
Degree of External Originality As built/last Passenger rebuild (BR or before)
Degree of Internal Originality As built/last Passenger rebuild (BR or before)
Degree of Underframe/Running Gear Originality As built/last Passenger rebuild (BR or before)
Rarity n/a
Historical Importance no Immediate Importance/Not Applicable
Operating No
Survey Date 28/06/1997
Surveyor Lee Sharpe
Photo Date 29/11/1994
At Risk No
Date Record Last Updated 24/04/2016

A complete unit, power doors, air braked, with conventional drawgear....

 

This view doesn't really represent most of us in active preservation. Suburban commuting railways have always been awful. The Quad Art set at the NNR is cramped, uncomfortable and fairly poor riding. For many years their condition was nothing short of rancid and they were completely unpresentable. However, fully restored and operated accordingly they are a fantastic insight into times gone by and they are now immensely popular.

First Generation DMU's, if restored properly, can be beautiful ways to travel along our heritage lines. However in the 1980's they were also bloody awful!

I think there is a place for a sensible number of these Mark 1 EMU's, but as others have already said the owners need to get them out of faded Connex livery, change the failed double glazing units that are scratched with commuters' messages and get working lights and heat in them. There are plenty of growing railways with duel braked locos who shouldn't have a problem with having an EMU as a second rake of carriages, providing they are not unusable eyesores. The challenge, of course, is raising units up to this condition with the limited interest and resources of EMU preservation.

Sent from my HTC Desire 620 using Tapatalk

 

Exactly. And its loss makes the 306 even more precious, even though it is altered and the Glossop / Hadfield one wasn't . Isn't it now the only EMU from the Mk1 / Pre Mk1 era (which, after all, is some 60 years!) that is both complete in its original formation and potentially operational? (In that, AFAIK, there is nothing to prevent it running on the main line?)

 

Would there be enough demand to justify a 'main line' certified EMU or two to run excursions?

 

Provided it's a Pullman, probably...

Tom

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. About the only emu with a USP is the 5BEL. I can't see much of a future for any other unless it is funded by it's owners and supporters.

 

Don't forget the pre-war Nelson COR unit that the Southern Electric Group own.

 

I wonder much of the same thing to be honest. Theres a lot of EMU mainline wannabes but on 3rd rail your market is limited, same as on O/H although theres more O/H than 3rd rail....

 

Thinking about it for a moment, now The Swanage Railway has a 4TC & there are a number of DEMU's in preservation, and given that it is possible to run some Southern EMU's with a MLV, it is possible, to some extent to recreate the 'Southern' experience in preservation.

The challenge however is to try to recreate the Electric Experience as it was outside those areas.

 

There are the ex Merseyrail units, 502 ex NRM which is, to put it bluntly, in a heck of a state, and the 503 at Coventry.

 

..... but at least, since 2012, it has been undercover and is being restored after nearly 20 years of outside storage and neglect.
Ray.

 

It must be noted that the 4-VOP only survived because of the Brighton Belle project, the group bought two 4-VOPs as spares and to use the under frames to strengthen the coaches to get around a lot of paper work. One set was not needed minus the MBSO so it was donated to save the cigs group, and that's why it is at the Dartmoor railway. http://www.400series.co.uk/?page_id=462

 

None which comply with the original question, which was:

Nor do the 2BIL, 4SUB and miscellaneous other pre-MK1 EMU vehicles which survive.

Incidentally the NRM has just removed the 4VEP driving trailer from the National Collection and dispatched it off to sunny Kent.

 

4 VEP 3417 is an EMU that is complete, of the Mark 1 era, and potentially operational.

Tom

 

I find it interesting - and a wee bit depressing - that even the 4-COR unit is largely forgotten. Given that, I'm inclined to agree that the 5BEL is about the only unit that is likely to be economically self-sustaining based on farebox income.