Pricing

I have been on the Swanage Railway today.

A Family return costs £35 and a Rover £55

On the WSR however a Family Rover is £57, as I have 3 children, adding one extra child brings it up to £56.50 - ie the same price as Swanage for 3 times the length of Journey, and up to 3 steam locos and a diesel/DMU

If however I take the Shakespeare Express its £50 for a similar journey length as the WSR but on the mainline.

Now, I understand transport pricing - and some of the factors that make VT Trips value for money, however two of the tickets look very good value by comparison with the third

Thoughts/other examples/explanations anyone

 

Not sure you can include 'family tickets' as every railway has its own variations and factors as to what constitutes a 'family' - different discount offers etc.. Think to give a fair assessment you can only compare full adult prices (even child age ranges vary from one line to another!) and then do you calculate the p/mile? Who's data to use regarding track length? Can you compare different gauges? I started a spreadsheet once but soon lost the will to live!

 

Incidentally I was also at Swanage today. The Swanage return fare (which you can break your journey on at one intimidate station beefier continuing on a later train), seems very good value for money for both family or as an adult ticket. £12.50 for adult or £35 family, how could you expect to get a cheaper attraction of a high standard? Having a separate day rover and return ticket option here does make sense, as most family's will only want the return journey, with maybe one break at Corfe Castle and not travel the trains all day. If you are wanting to travel more trains than just one full line return, generally that will be more the enthusiast market (see my point below about gala pricing). Once your onto unlimited travel, especially on a line like Swanage with an intensive timetable, that then surely offers you the ability to be able to get your milage up to one of a longer line like the West Somerset.

The West Somerset ticket is very good value for money compared to some other lines, but I'd say that is probably down to there being a cut off over how much you can charge and getting the general public to still come.

For me pricing for preserved lines on a standard day is something which is hard to work out if its too expensive or cheap. On a slightly different point, I do feel we are lucky to get gala prices so cheaply. What I could consider similar events for other dedicated enthusiasts (football, concerts and theatre tickets) charge much higher fees. While these prices are often higher due to demand, if people want larger scale gala with numerous visiting locomotives, large home fleet and an intensive timetable, (they also offer longer periods of entertainment than the comparrable events), then surely these events could start to demand a ticket price more in line with theatre/football tickets...

 

Of cause the advantage off a theatre show or football match is that everyone is there for the same thing...
... Can't imagine that everyone attends a gala because it is a gala, many wouldn't have known in advance and therefore wouldn't be expecting say a 200% fare increase!!!

 

Ticket pricing on heritage railways is not an easy thing to compare logically. Most heritage railways don't see themselves in competition with each other. For the longer lines offering a whole day out, it generally comes down to what other family attractions are on offer locally and pricing accordingly. With shorter lines it comes down to a perception of what people think of as value for money. I think that the Lynton & Barnstaple at £7.50 is hugely overpriced in comparison with a similar length Middleton at £5.00 (which also has more to offer). Both offer about a 25 min round trip and both allow tickets to be used all day but the L & B is in an expensive tourist area and obviously gets away with it. If Middleton could get away with £7.50 it would be a huge boost to annual income but we get people who grumble at £5.00.
Personally, I'm happy to pay whatever ticket price is asked because I'm fully aware of what it costs and I'm just grateful that we have all the variety of railways that we do.

 

Another factor to bear in mind is the environment in which the train operates. The Swanage Railway is - in many ways - a means to the end in that it operates as a Park-and-Ride facility for Swanage so once you sample the train you have the options of detraining to visit both Corfe Castle and Swanage without concern for parking whilst also having the opportunity to sample as many train rides as you wish.

Other lines have similar concerns asto whether your visit is with the railway being the end or the means to an end - and the pricing will be commensurate with that thinking. Whilst the WSR offers the opportunity to visit Blue Anchor or Minehead it also offers the length of ride that to many is the end in itself whilst the KWVR offers both a short - but spirited - ride with the option of detraining to visit Haworth as a tourist centre whilst also offering local transport to residents.

Given that many heritage lines are a major element in the local economies in which they are located I think you'll find that pricing is very much geared to local conditions and market elasticity in pricing levels.

 

I'm guessing the most expensive railway to visit must be the Welsh highland? The person in front of me at Caernarfon ticket office last week had 2 adult and 2 concession returns to Porthmadog, coming in at £126 or there abouts!

Though doing it with a heritage rail pass or North Wales residents card it comes in at third fare so not too bad!

 

When Swanage raised their "Freedom of the Line" (day rover) tickets by 60% to £20, I asked why and was told it was because of the extra extension to Wareham opening for this season.
Of course it did not open, but the £20 price remained.
Wish we all could get a 60% pay rise, but few of us are bankers.

 

The thing with the Swanage Railway is that the 'Freedom of the Line' ticket a few years ago was below £15.00 if I recall correctly, so it seems to be a very steep price increase considering that there hasn't been any massive changes in the services that are offered on the line.

Edit: Above poster beat me too it about Swanage!

 

When I ran a railway I was advised by another operator to increase my prices slightly every year. That is the way to avoid sudden big price rises that potential travellers really do notice. I was also told that unless there are a few walking away at the price then it is probably too low!

 

Many years ago somebody (who knew what they were talking about) made the point that the WSR had to charge what people were prepared to pay for a day out, not the cost of running the railway. £57 even including three children, is a lot of money. Perhaps this is the reason that the WSR passenger figures have been falling year on year. Have they forgotten the lesson?

 

Well, I took the terrible trio for a day out today. Leaving BL at 10.25, short stop at Blue Anchor for 20 mins or so followed by getting the next train to Minehead.

Saw 53808 being turned

Ran round the beach for another 20 mins followed by a round trip to Williton on the DMU

Back to BL behind 53808 oldest two both invited onto the footplate before we left- very nice indeed

Got in the car at about 1715

7 hours fun for £57 adult + 3 children isn't bad value

 

The SVR's family ticket is normally £55.50 for 2 Adults and up to 4 Children (4-15), which must be one of the more generous validities (WSR, Llangollen and NYMR are 2A+2C; GWSR, Swanage and Bluebell are 2A+3C with the GCR having the option of 1A+3C or 2A+3C).
Is it too high? Well, plenty are sold normally but it is noticeable how many families are about atm with the summer saver offer where the family ticket is available for £39, in advance and on-the-day. TTI-ing on Saturday, I saw lots of family tickets and the trains in the past few weeks (since the offer knicked in and the schools broke up) have been quite full generally.

 

Many valid points made here - you can only charge what a sustainable market will stand, and for the longer lines, the initial 'that will be £X' can be a shock to be got over or around for a purchase to be made!

It is vital to make sure potential passengers understand it is the basis of a varied day out, breaking the journey, visiting different places, doing different things at different stages of the day.

If people have had a full and good day out, then they will appreciate the value and hopefully tell others - BUT if the initial price is too off-putting, then they will never get chance to see that it actually is good value.

I cannot see any heritage railway as being able to afford the detailed market research to give real in depth 'elasticity of demand' date, so any pricing decision becomes of an act of faith - and hence why 'small but annual' is the safest thing for increases.

(Oh, and people have a set amount to spend on a day out - start to push the limit for the ticket, and shops and catering suffer, but arguably the Railway benefits as the extra income is extra fares revenue that hasn't incurred extra cost of sales. Push it too far, and people just come and watch the trains and the secondary spend benefits but the Railway doesn't save a penny on train operation and loses out big time on ticket income!)

Steven

 

Surely many potential customers will have researched their day out and have an idea of the fares and value on offer relative to other activities before they arrive. It may once have been true that people arrived as passing trade but as the sector has matured and public access to web based data has increased the challenge is to understand what motivates people to come initially, what can be done to ensure a repeat visit and more importantly what puts a high percentage of people off coming. As we move to the point where steam railways are only remembered by pensioners there is likely to be an ever declining proportion of passengers seeking to remember their youth and a need to engage with a new public in totally different ways.

As for elasticity of demand data I suspect much information could be obtained quite cheaply by having very short surveys linked to website "hits" thus prospective customers might be asked if they'll visit or why not. This seems to be a technique used by many service providers often with small prizes for completion. The marginal costs of a few free family tickets and some simple software could perhaps easily be justified by its impact on pricing decisions.

Whilst statisticians may want enormous samples for accurate results quite small samples may well reveal trends and are certainly likely to be better than a "small but annual" approach which simply repeats errors in the basic price structure. Whilst many of us dislike the huge complexity of fare structures on the big railway it is clear that the TOC's have been very effective in boosting sales through offers whilst the heritage sector has largely stuck with simple fares applied throughout the year. In a world where consumers are bombarded with discounts, money off vouchers and loyalty offers there must be considerable scope for the heritage sector to do something similar to fill its off peak services.

 

WSR provide a 7 day rover for £25.

That has got to be the best value ticket anywhere in the country ?

Ideal for enthusiasts visiting the area.

 

I wish some of the people that turn up and wander around the place I volunteer at all day taking photos would at least buy a platform ticket or use the cafe rather then bring a picnic. It's an expensive operation to run a steam railway.

 

Good luck with that one!!!

 

That's good coming from someone who chooses not to be an NP friend.

 

Indeed it probably is but then you have to use it, which for me atm is unlikely in the extreme. If however I ever did stay somewhere for a week near the line, I probably would buy one.