850 Lord Nelson

Old Boiler, new boiler, old parts, new parts! Isn't the pleasure just seeing any magnificant loco in full flight on the main line. I'm 39 and to young to remember steam in its glory but i do feel we need to keep steam going to tell those that come after us what greatness the Britons of old brought to the world!!


LONG LIVE STEAM!!!

 

LN should have a new boiler, GA a new cylinder block and FS de-Frankenstein'd.

All the cast offs can be kept or mounted for display.

3 unique locos working on the mainline again must be the goal.

 

While I agree in principal would someone please explain where the NRM are going to find this amount of money?

 

I am quite heavily involved with the marine industry, its interesting to compare 850's position and restoration with the paddle steamer Waverley. To allow Waverley to comply to the latest safety regulations and keep her trading she has had many alterations during her 60 years of service. During this time she has had a number of boilers (now has 2 fitted instead of as built with 1), new deck houses, new wheelhouse, new decks, new interiors, new paddles and many parts of her hull have been replated. The ship is still very much the Waverley but she has been updated to keep her steaming and giving pleasure. I'd much rather see the 850 with a new boiler and anything else replaced to keep it steaming, although not really a huge fan of the engine I'd rather see it steaming that stuffed and mounted - same goes for Flying Scotsman. If the engines need a new boiler they should have one . . .

 

That wasn't "pimping", the lights under the casing were/are original equipment. Looks neat running a Spamcan at night with the motion lights on.

 

And cylinders as well IIRC.

 

Pimp my Maunsell?[/quote]

Where do i stick the neon lights...[/quote]
Under the running plate, duh!

Don't forget to put the subwoofer and massive speakers on the tender, too![/quote]

34092 City of Wells was "pimped" in the eighties. She had lights fitted under her casing to illuminate her wheels and motion to aid servicing of her at night.[/quote]

That wasn't "pimping", the lights under the casing were/are original equipment. Looks neat running a Spamcan at night with the motion lights on.[/quote]

I had never seen or heard of these lights before until I looked at a book on 34092. I thought they were added as I had never seen them in use before on any of the other Spamcans in preservation or in SR/BR photo's.

 

Where did this idea that 850 "should have had a new boiler" come from? The last official word on the matter was that two rows of stays had failed and an investigation was going to take place to ascertain the cause. Or have things moved on? Can't see anything new on the ERPS website.

 

You are absolutely right, John. The question is, why did those stays break? Presumably, it is a symptom of some other problem, perhaps with the firebox. That's what is being investigated. As far as I know, there is no suggestion that the boiler or firebox would be replaced now, in whole nor in part.

During the restoration, when the full extent of the boiler and firebox problems became known, there were various suggestions that it might be cheaper to replace some or all of either the boiler or the firebox or perhaps both (sorry, I don't have the ERPS newsletters to hand and can't recall all the details). IIRC, it wasn't certain that it would be cheaper, but in any case the NRM decided that since repairs were possible, it was better to repair than replace, in this case. It's perhaps not surprising that this debate has been restarted, given the recent problems.

To me, there are two important questions:
1) Can 850 be repaired, at an affordable cost, for further mainline work?
2) Given similar circumstances, would the NRM make different decisions in the future about "extensive" repairs?

We should always remember that locos in the National Collection are different from those in private ownership. The NRM's first responsibility is the long-term conservation of historical artifacts, and their second is to make those artifacts accessable to the public for generations to come. Only in a small number of cases is the best way to meet those responsibilities to restore the loco to operational condition. Don't get me wrong; I love Lord Nelson and fervantly hope to see her on the main line again before very long. Likewise, I would rather see one working loco than a dozen in a museum, but it may be that the NRM would do better to put its money and effort into running a loco that is in better condition than repairing 850.

 

One question I have to ask is where will all these original boilers / cylinder blocks be stored?

The NRM does not have room to display them publically, and even offsite storage could be an issue, particualrly as once they are not being used they need to be put to use as archaelogical artefacts, so would realistically need conserving to prevent them deteriorating further to remain as much use for historical interpretation, something which can be a costly issue.

And ultimately, are the general public bothered?

 

The NRM tend to use the Science Museum's storage facillity at the former RAF Wraughton to store such large items. As an "out station" of the Science Museum the NRM have access to this facillity. Although Wraughton is not generally open to the public they do tend to have an open weekend from time to time, although I think it's only once a year?

 

Where do i stick the neon lights...[/quote]
Under the running plate, duh!

Don't forget to put the subwoofer and massive speakers on the tender, too![/quote]

34092 City of Wells was "pimped" in the eighties. She had lights fitted under her casing to illuminate her wheels and motion to aid servicing of her at night.[/quote]

That wasn't "pimping", the lights under the casing were/are original equipment. Looks neat running a Spamcan at night with the motion lights on.[/quote]

I had never seen or heard of these lights before until I looked at a book on 34092. I thought they were added as I had never seen them in use before on any of the other Spamcans in preservation or in SR/BR photo's.[/quote]

The inspection lights were most certainly original equipment. How often they were switched on is another matter entirely.

 

Would make sense as that is where Scotsman's spare boiler is stored. It's amazing some of the stuff they have tucked away at Wroughton away from public view - not railway stuff, but all sorts of technological artefacts. Had a tour round one of the hangars last year when a few of us inspected Cuneo's Waterloo painting prior to its move to the NRM last month.

 

Just a thought, but have any of the armchair boiler experts considered whether 850's current woes are simply down to the boiler being a particularly poor example, or are they more symptoms of a wider malady with the loco as a whole?

My reason for asking is that several main line footplatemen (for whom I have a great deal of respect and have had more to do with operating Nelsons at speed than most people will ever gain!) have spoken of a vibration (not a rough ride - definitely something akin to a vibration) set up around the rear end of the locomotive when it goes above a certain speed.

To me, if a loco is suffering in this way, then it is a relatively short step to look to things like leaking stays and collapsed brick arches as being a development of this.

I am not trying to put anyone down or question anyone's workmanship and hasten to add that these are not my own thoughts - just raising an alternative viewpoint to people's comments on the boiler in isolation.

 

How much of 850 is original when the loco was in the works for an overhaul could someone of just changed over the rods and loco name plates with another loco and sent out that loco and that loco would become nelson or would that not be possible are there any other markings on the frames or not.
So what make nelson become nelson is it the frames and the rods it can’t be the boiler or the tender has these items are swapped over all the time in BR service

 

I'd love to be able to comment about 850's boiler both from my armchair and as a professional engineer but, until someone goes public on what exactly has gone wrong, rather than just speculating, I both won't and can't.

 

its interesting to read what people have speculated and no one has yet mentioned that the problems that 850 has could have occured with a completely new boiler.

its just like new cars can go wrong as much as an old one.

 

This seems an appropriate place to mention that I'm working on a Lord Nelson DVD. To be called "The Hero's Return" it will include footage of many of 850's main line runs during 2007, including the test run in March, as well as her visits to the West Somerset and East Lancs. railways. Material has been contributed by TWR Video (my partners in The Great Britain programme) and Linesider of great fame and renown on this forum. Running time should be about an hour, and cost will be £10. All proceeds will be donated to ERPS. I have completed the first rough-cut already, and I hope to have it ready for despatch by the end of November. Full details will be posted on my web site quite soon, but if you want to be at the head of the queue, I'm prepared to take orders now (no cheques will be paid in until the discs are in the post).

You can see a small sample on YouTube at http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YkOFZOzX1GM.

 

Would a different coloured paint stop it leaking? Just a thought it worked on my MAMOD. =D>

 

Possibly. What paint did you use on your MAMOD?