What was the past really like?

I bumped into someone yesterday who had been a fireman on M7 powered push-pull services. Unlike the railway we had just been on, there was no question of burning "best Welsh" and they existed on a diet of "Grade 3". By then of course the M7s would be knocking sixty years old and were, shall we say, well worn. My informant observed that when they got given a 2MT tank, it was like Paradise after a spell in the other place! Interesting how this view fr0m the past about the 2MT concurs with what present day footplate crews have said.

Secondly the air operated push-pull control gear. In its dotage, at any rate, this never worked properly and it was normally worked "with the pin out" and the regulator adjusted by the fireman in accordance with bell signals from the driver. This was done with the tacit agreement of the footplate inspectors.

As used to be said in examination papers, "Discuss".

PH

 

When I gave a retirement speech I told people that, when they looked at "black and white" photographs but noticed that they were all shades of grey, that was as accurate as a colour photograph would have been. Yes it was grim and these are the golden years.

 

I'd make one general and one specific point. The general one is that however good we think we are a heritage line fireman (*) doing say 20 or 30 turns a year - or even 50 or 60 - can't really expect to be as skilled as a mainline fireman doing perhaps 250 turns a year. That extends to practices such as you mention to make life easier that wouldn't be condoned today, but also more generally in getting the best out of worn machinery.

The specific point is that when looking at old photos, I am always amazed just how poor the coal looked. (**) Even on express turns, shots of the tenders often show a mix between huge lumps - with the added labour of breaking them - and slack, with not much in between. Certainly you don't often see the nice graded fist-sized lumps we tend to enjoy today. Whenever I get into the slack as the bunker or tender depletes, I think about having to deal with that all the time.

(*) Won't speak for drivers, who are all flawless...
(**) I look at a lot of SR photos, who ended up with coal that had suffered long distance transport. Maybe it was better in the coal mining areas, though I somehow doubt it.

Tom

 

I am told that one reason for the demise of steam was that very few people were willing to work on it

 

I wouldn't say that all heritage railways buy 'best welsh' all the time, especially if financially constrained. Often the coal can be very dusty and when there is Welsh, although it may burn well, can also be damaging to the grate if good attention is not payed to the firing as well as clinker badly.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

You are no doubt right by saying that the firemen (and drivers) of pre 1968 steam were generally more experienced than today's heritage crews. However, I'm sure that there was a range of crews from the expert to the downright rubbish, just as there are in any occupation and, as such todays good crews will probably be more skilled than yesterday's dross.
As for coal, you just have to read one of the BTC loco testing reports where the coal is briefly described. It generally varied from lumps 3 foot x 1 foot to dust. The coal pick was much more a necessity then than it is today. And if you were unfortunate enough to have a bunker full of that Welsh stuff, you would consider yourself a lucky fireman if you found many lumps. The stuff may have had a relatively higher C.V. but it was very friable. And dust is great for producing clinker. Even the C.V. wasn't much higher than the good Yorkshire & Nottinghamshire coals.

 

The particular line does and this must help in the perennially arduous task of keeping stock and premises reasonably clean. I am sure you are right about "financially constrained". I visited one railway recently where the loco. was throwing out smoke like the bad old days of Daw Mill coal. Not good!

PH

 

It does gently amuse me the way the hobby/industry uses the word 'weathered' as a euphemism for 'filthy dirty and indifferently maintained'.

 

Spare a thought for the passengers using the branches in the past as well. The rot box carriages used on the Horsham Brighton/Guildford were generally bloody awful. Rain soaked internally, rotten seating, rarely any lights, rarely any heat ( which sprayed hot water over you when it was turned on) . What a difference to the Mid Sussex and the hourly 4COR and BUF. Getting the 207 DEMU was entering the space age but the damage had been done, it was too late, even though patronage rocketed the line closed. Our family could not wait to get a car. In the 60s, 70s and 80s with the comfort of the CIGs and BIGs we returned but the latest ironing board 377s and G(one) T(o) R(uin) TOC have forced us off rail again. Rail is now the transport medium of last resort.

Brian

 

I think this was the line the person I was talking to had in mind. Just as he was dreaming of a few more 2MTs, so his passengers were dreaming of carriages whose roofs did not leak and whose seat springs were not liable to spear them in the backside!
Paul H

 

Plus the increase in labour costs.

 

The reason was that other forms of motive power came along, much more expensive in capital cost but less labour intensive. The changeover was very poorly managed in this country, perfectly serviceable and modern locomotives were scrapped en masse without any thought to a programmed change.
In contrast West Germany, a country I visited several times to record their end of steam, maintained their engines and facilities in top order to the end. I remember visiting Eifeltor shed in Cologne on my first visit and was struck by the clean modern depot with fully lit inspection pits, fairly new shed building and extractor fans for the loco exhaust. The poor British railway men had to make do with no maintenance budget, semi derelict buildings which had no new investment since pre war days. It's a tribute to them that they managed to keep it all going for as long as they did

 

Presumably that is not unrelated to the events of 1939 - 45 though? While I certainly wouldn't have wished any other outcome, if your entire physical infrastructure has been largely lain to waste, presumably the Gemans didn't have much choice other than to construct new facilities, and could do so with both a short-term goal of improving conditions for steam engine men, but knowing that the basic structures would be good for later modernisation. Whereas to a large degree, British sheds escaped relatively unscathed, but meant we entered the 1950s with Victorian infrastructure that was compounded by a decade or more of (entirely understandable) underinvestment during the war years and immediate post war period.

Tom

 

I remember reading that Dr Beeching came to the conclusion you couldn't run both steam and diesel/electric traction side by side due to the cost of doubling up on running both types of traction together. But could there of been a argument for saying steam could of been retained in one half of the country. With the other half of the country converts over to modern traction and ironing out all the running snags issues with new modern traction.

 

that's what happened in effect. The WR was dieselised by 1965, the north west took until 1968.

 

those locos weren't "perfectly serviceable" , The vast majority were withdrawn when major repairs were due (imo). You only have to look at photos from the mid sixties to see what a rundown state the remaining fleet was in.

 

I was think on a longer time scale. Possibly in to the late 70s or even in to the 80s. Surely almost all the BR standard locos had years left in them before they should of been scrapped.

 

I don't really think that was the case. In the North West there were plenty of passed cleaners/firemen who because they started after the cut off date in 1965 were not protected and either left the industry or transferred to other grades, mainly guards when diesels were rapidly introduced. And from seeing the history of other regions a lot of men transferred long distances ( at a time when it was seen as a long way from where I lived at Middleton to Great Harwood, say equivalent to Mills Hill to Blackburn) when they were made redundant to retain their jobs.

 

We all need to be wary of undue romanticism (and self delusion) here. The recollections of burmister and the retired railwayman (who was very much an enthusiast) I met ought to give people plenty to think about.

PH

 

The efforts that some people go to ignore the lessons of the past, make me wonder if we are supposed to think that everything that happened in the past was bad, or at best; poor!