LMS Patriot Project Updates

When I bumped into David Williams he also said a similar few comments! His comment was something along the lines of " if only there was somewhere that you could send her once complete that had a rake of coaches to go with her..."

 

Wouldn't it be nice....

 

Although I have no vested interest in the Patriot other than hoping it meets its targets and is steaming soon, I have to say I'm glad that common sense has prevailed and that this locomotive will not join the vast majority of the working fleet in a post nationalisation livery.

The Crimson lake will look amazing. Wouldn't it be fabulous to get a full LMS line up with the Crab and one of the working Jubilees, painted appropriately and accurately, to match?

 

Ooh as a conparison how about a winter CME? One week the Pat, the following week a Jube (Bahamas maybe) and after that say maybe an A4, Duchess, Brit, Duke, P2... Feel free to add your own!

 

I think that Stanier introduced some ideas from Swindon and kept some LMS ones. The Jubilees were a bit of a mix and match design that didn't match perfectly. When I remembered them on the Midland Main line and the Midland West of England Route in the 1950s they were on top form. The only Patriot allocated to Derby, for obvious reasons, was 45509 which we always regarded as antiquated!

 

How's about really puting the cat amongst the pigeons and going for maroon with a BR Crest! A la Galatea?! That'd be intresting!

 

I have a feeling that the P2 would be master of the S&C.

 

How would we know though?! There's only one way to find out!

 

It does nothing for me on Galatea. In fact it irritates me so much as to render Galatea irrelevant to my interests.

Restoring a Barry wreck from such an incredible point of no return, to paint it in a livery which its class never wore, isn't for me preservation at its best or most intelligent. I suspect I'm alone in this but it's the principle. Spoiling the ship for a ha'poth of tar.

The LMS Patriot Project have nailed it. The LMS livery is a stunner. People will love it because it's new, representing a beautiful thing (national memorial engine) and because it's authentic in every sense of the word.

It is a shame that the liveries applied by real artists - and hard working men with pride at work at that - is reduced to "its only a coat of paint". It isn't, there's history, hard work, blood sweat and tears behind it too. An age when people took pride in their work and charges.

 

I rather suspect the P2 will be the master, period. High tractive effort matched by higher adhesion than anything else on the mainline, married to arguably the most free steaming boiler on any of the preserved Pacifics.

But that's for another thread...

 

Simon, you make a valid point, Knowing a couple of loco owners, (and knowing how much a decent repaint costs) Colour is something that I try not to get to wound up about* I always thought it was obvious that (4)5551 would be red, seeing the polo shirts on the guys on the sales stall! However I couldn't care less what colour (4)5551 is when it steams I'll just be happy to see it in steam. * 6100 in Airfix Pink is an exception

 

Interesting it's quite the opposite for me and generally make an effort to go and photo the colorful Galatea on the WCML (which I live near, Shap is only about 10 miles away), it's the total opposite with Leander which I would'nt even get out of bed for. . . .

 

They both do a similar thing to me I'm afraid! Leander when in crimson lake was a "must see" for me. If her current black livery had been accurate to her (BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender) it would be the same. It's a principle for me.

I accept I'm a minority in this so shall not waste anymore space on this for anyone.

Except to say well done to the Patriot Project and best wishes to them.

 

I do know what you mean, Leander was always a stunner in Crimson Lake, however most locos have spent a good deal of their life in preservation than in active service, and preservation is after all about show business (it's the families that pay the bills) and a bit more variety is just the ticket rather than the black and drab green favored by some enthusiasts. Well done to the Patriot Team for this bold decision which goes against the trend, and I for one will look forward to the finished result.

 

Put it in battleship grey and it'll look good

 

That's just Blasé, not having a go btw but we are rather lucky to have two mainline Jubes, especially one being a 'spares' doner

 

You're not alone, perhaps not even in a minority.

I like a loco to be in a historically accurate livery for the condition it's in, that it carried during its lifetime.

If that's not possible I like it to be in a historically accurate livery for the condition it's in, that was carried by another member of its class.

If that's not possible I like a loco to be in a livery that looks right even if it isn't.

If that's not possible, I like a loco to be in a livery that gives it dignity.

If that's not possible then you might as well paint it blue and put a face on it.

However, I contribute very little to the restoration of these engines and I totally respect the right of the owners to do what they like.

Incidentally, although railway preservation is "... about show business (because it's the families that pay the bills)." it doesn't need to be a circus freak show. And it's interesting that the appeal of Flying Scotsman has not diminished one jot by its appearance in authentic BR livery. The previous owners stated that it had to be in LNER livery, despite double chimney and blinkers, because that was "... part of its brand.".

 

Owner's prerogative: no issues with that. I just wish the owners of some engines would see the majesty of some of the liveries their charges can authentically wear. Most of the pre grouping and grouping liveries are beautiful and LMS Crimson Lake is one of them.

 

BTW ... my other dislikes, apart from spurious liveries, are exhibition finishes, unauthentic burnished metalwork, unauthentic names, plaques and other embellishments.

Even if a loco is in an authentic livery the effect can be totally ruined by excessive embellishment. An example was Bahamas, restored to BR Green but every piece of metal burnished bright, and looking nothing like any Jubilee I ever saw.

I hate to criticise the efforts of the people who work so hard to put locos into working order, but I sometimes feel genuinely disappointed at what I see.

I'm not disappointed by 60103. It looks just right.

 

I believe a certain ex head of special trains who has a total aversion to Ferret and Dartboards or Cycling Lions is at fault for that. I also believe that said person wanted to run an LMS 4-6-0 in red without its blinkers because he dosn't like them, even though they are a safety feature.