Next NRM restoration and other questions?

What about dear old O4 63601 (or 8K no 102 in real, i.e. GCR, money)? A product of Gorton in 1912 (I here declare a conflict of interest as I am a product of Gorton in 1964). According to the GCR's website:

"In collaboration the National Railway Museum its condition will be fully assessed before a full 10 year overhaual is commenced. That is expected to take two years so in 2014 she will steam again!"

Blimey, I must have missed her return to steam. Or has she been "re-prioritised"?

 

I honestly didn't really think the Q7 would be likely to be allowed out again. I would have just liked the chance to see to see both Q6 and Q7 in steam together.

Sawdust.

 

What makes you think it won't be allowed out again?

 

The one that should be but I don't think will be seen again is the compound, a D49, a Dukedog, both out of traffic and a couple of Schools are all we've got as working examples of the once common

 

I presume you were going to say 4-4-0?
There is also the T9 (I think, not so good on SR classifications, that Urie rebuilt Drummond LSWR loco).
I agree that the 4-4-0 is the quintessential British passenger loco pre-1930s but there are not enough examples in operation (the D49, Dukedog and Schools all being late atypical outliers and the last 4-4-0 types in their respective regions).
Arguably an inside cylindered 4-4-0 would be more typical than the compound.
As I have said above, if you like Midland compounds, go and see 85 on the mainline over the Irish Sea!

 

Yes I did mean to finish with 4-4-0 and forgot about the T9

 

I await your cheque

Problem is, with everyone having so many favourites, saying this or that SHOULD be done, if we set up an appeal, each engine would probably raise an average of £27.50. It's why it's odd when folks say that Scotsman's money SHOULD have been spent on other items in the collection. It couldn't - that money existed and was given/raised/allocated because it was Scotsman - not any other engine.

Case in point, Taff Vale 28 is now with folks who want to do something with it, but the appeal has struggled to raise even £5000. All very well saying what SHOULD happen, but in this day and age, money talks more than ever I'm afraid and the museum does not have a limitless pot of cash.

 

That's always a difficulty with anywhere that has a fleet - e.g. Didcot - some want to see 1466 overhauled, some want the Manor, some the Halls etc etc. I figure that about the only solution is to have one fund into which people contribute but that every £1 they contribute counts as one vote towards what gets done next. So if after say 12 months of the fund 1466 is leading the votes and sufficient money is in the total pot it then gets overhauled and its votes get reset to zero. The others carry on building their scores so that the next most popular gets done. That way eventually even the least popular would get a turn (although the most popular might get done a couple of times in between). The question then would be whether people would sign up for it - the advantage is that you get others contributing towards your favourite - the downside is that your funds might initially go towards something you aren't so bothered about. (You'd also have to define the available pool for overhaul - so you might exclude something that is historic in its current state and won't be suitable for overhaul). Even with NRM's collection there is probably a reasonably small number that can realistically be overhauled.

 

+1

Like many things in life, I think it's a case of needing someone in charge to say, "this is the next one, take it or leave it", start the appeal (subject to pre checks indicating that the project is viable and wouldn't require replacing half of it) and hope and wait that it gets a big enough following, otherwise rail enthusiasts as a community would never agree on which loco it should be. My question would be: is there any particular loco in the national collection that the NRM would like to see running again, or is it another case where even NRM staff can't agree on which one it should be.

Whilst I would like to see the big names like Mallard, Hamilton, Arrow and Truro running again, having visited the foot plates of the two GNR veterans last Friday, I think that I would rather see something completely different to anything else, like No 1. I'll carry on dreaming...

Kind regards,
Chris

 

Especially from its incarceration at Darlington. This museum has got acute museumitis, an affliction where the interpretive materials become the be all and end all, and are allowed to completely obscure the actual exhibits. Think Tank has the same disease.

 

This is an interesting and thought-provoking post, Black Cat. Not sure that there is an accepted lexicon in the museum industry, but here are some thoughts:

I have always considered a Preserved vehicle to be one that had been retained for display or operation for its own sake.

A Restored vehicle is one that has been given attention, either to make it operational, or to put it into the desired cosmetic state for display, or both.

A Conserved vehicle is one that is being retained in its existing condition, with measures taken to prevent deterioration, but without any restoration. Conservation can have two distinct purposes; (i) to allow the vehicle to be displayed in its historical condition, as withdrawn, or (ii) to prevent corrosion and decay whilst the vehicle awaits restoration.

There is a further category, but I'm not sure what to call it, whereby vehicles are retained for use within the preservation industry on a pragmatic basis, because they are useful and economical to operate. I imagine most Mark I coaches and lot of diesel shunters fall into this category. Once they become uneconomical to operate they are laid aside or disposed of.

From the NRM's point of view, I agree that they have a duty to conserve their most historic items so that the original material and workmanship remains intact. This precludes making them operational. Nobody would dream of restoring Rocket or Bradyll to operational condition.

At the other end of the spectrum are machines that have very little original material, so there is nothing to be lost by operating them. 60103 for example.

And then there is a big grey area in the middle. There are various Victorian and Edwardian 4-4-0s that could probably be returned to steam, but the repairs would have to be done to 21st century standards, and the integrity of their as-withdrawn condition would be lost. Not an easy decision for the NRM to make. Even considerations like the original Swindon paint job on Lode Star make this a non-starter for restoration. For now at least.

With its limited funds, I think the NRM should focus its energy on conservation and cosmetic restoration. But if partner organisations can make a case for operating a NRM vehicle, at no cost to the NRM, and at no detriment to the vehicle, then why not?

 

Seeing as its the upcoming anniversary of their farewell on the mainline,
How about D1023 ??

 

I would quite like to see "Aerolite" in action. I don't know how realistic this would be.

 

D1023 doubtful it'll work again as it's apparently got transmission issues which with hydraulics seems to be expensive.

AFAIK D8000 (20050) is slowly being returned to use. Been in the NRM workshop stripped down for a while now so should get sorted soon hopefully. D200 is under the wing of the d200 group who are looking to get in back in action.

Had heard that 850 lord nelson will eventually return to use again. Scotsman has obviously annoyed a lot of people due to the amount of money the restoration has cost. Also the fact they spent loads doing the streamlined casing on hamilton & never touched the boiler.

 

1023 expensive but cheap in comparison to the money pit.

 

It almost certain that 850 will be overhauled in the medium term and return to operation on the MHR. I won't mention anything about livery!

 

I don't think a restored box would capture the public imagination like 60103.

 

Whats a box ?
You mean a Diesel Hydraulic locomotive,
Show some respect, not all Diesel enthusiasts think of Steam as kettles or refer to them as such.

 

I know what it is I saw enough of them during the 60s/70s and you can call a steam loco anything you like it doesn't bother me. Where does respect come into it?

 

Which supports the policy - albeit in extremis - that some items are best being preserved, maintained and operated in specific areas. In the case of 850 the MHR is at the heart of its working area during its operating days and there is still support available from knowledgeable people at Eastleigh. Good to hear that 850 will have a WORKING future - and that I have good reason to have a holiday in the Hampshire era once more.