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Welsh Marches Express - Cardiff: 27/11/16

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Big Al, Nov 15, 2016.

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  1. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    So far from the Lineside the box has assisted heavily. That 25 Late departure from Intl has ruined any hope of th3 Fives taking the whole train on its own ! The diesel was working hard up the 1/80 out of New Street understandable as there was two service trains up its rear. Colwall diesel was assisting and finally Llanvihangel the diesel was assisting again. Hopefully everyone on board is enjoying it regardless.
     
    LMarsh1987, Nov 27, 2016
    #101
  2. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Yes, all very pleasant. Noted a few speed irregularities on the climbs south of Hereford.
     
    Bulleid Pacific, Nov 27, 2016
    #102
  3. jsm8b

    jsm8b Part of the furniture

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    That's lunch sorted then !
     
    jsm8b, Nov 27, 2016
    #103
  4. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    I have read elsewhere that one is considered more sure footed than the other, I have also read that 5407 is the owner's favourite and with it tucked in behind the lead loco he is able to drive it. Either, both or none of the above maybe correct!
     
    acorb, Nov 27, 2016
    #104
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  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Nice run to Cardiff. I see that we were pushed most of the way according to our lineside reporters. Well, can I just say that the lead engine drivers - Andy Taylor to Hereford and Ray Poole to Cardiff said that
    the diesel helped out of New Street up to Five Ways and after the locos had entered the tunnel at Colwall. This was so that the crew on the train engine would still be alive for the rest of the journey. The diesel will also assist up the Lickey.

    Speeds so far seem to support that. I'll leave the lineside and armchair folk to make up their own minds who is right.
     
    Big Al, Nov 27, 2016
    #105
  6. jsm8b

    jsm8b Part of the furniture

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    I suspect the owner's preference may have something to do with it but I've certainly photographed several occasions where 45407 was leading.
     
    jsm8b, Nov 27, 2016
    #106
  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Owner was on the train engine.
     
    Big Al, Nov 27, 2016
    #107
  8. KristianGWR

    KristianGWR Member

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    A quick shot of the pair topping Llanvihangel summit earlier.
     
    KristianGWR, Nov 27, 2016
    #108
  9. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    The night time storming of Abergavenny was the highlight of the day so far ! Not a lot from the rear either !
     
    LMarsh1987, Nov 27, 2016
    #109
  10. AlexGWR1994

    AlexGWR1994 Member

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    My shot of the Black Fives powering through Colwall with the backdrop of the Malvern Hills and with the 47 in idle. Enjoy.
     
    AlexGWR1994, Nov 27, 2016
    #110
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  11. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Bloody good climb, hair and table covered in ash flying through quarterlights, and it seemed like hellfire. A few happy passengers from where I'm sitting in the carriage.
     
    Bulleid Pacific, Nov 27, 2016
    #111
  12. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Full effort from the Fives up the Lickey with some stunning fire glow on offer. The 47 was assisting well, which was expected and took nothing away from the duo.
     
    LMarsh1987, Nov 27, 2016
    #112
  13. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I can't believe the Pheasant was still there at International at the end!, almost like 44871 was proud of it's bufferbeam trophy :D
     
    david1984, Nov 27, 2016
    #113
  14. alrohomer

    alrohomer Member Friend

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    I presume that's an alternative to it being well hung?
     
    alrohomer, Nov 27, 2016
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  15. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Whilst myself and many other NP folk have been enjoying a splendid day with Andy Taylor, Ray Poole, Phil Cowley and Ian Riley plus his 5s, it seems that a few Forum 'remoaners' not on the trip have been talking out of their drain cocks about what the Class 47 was and was not doing. The only sad part, given the cards that were dealt WCRC/RTC by NR was that we had to sit at Bromsgrove while the 1820 Paignton - New Street went by. Lucky we did have something to nudge us a bit up the Lickey as all bets would have been off for the 5s lifting 10 up to Blackwell from a standing start.

    Many thanks to the RTC and all the WC team. Commiserations to those support crew and WC folk who were on board from the crack of dawn and had to face the ECS move with the locos back to Southall directly afterwards.
     
    Big Al, Nov 28, 2016
    #115
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  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Are you sure? A previous post said that during trials on 6/3/1955 44776 successfully restarted a seven coach load on the incline so is it not unreasonable to assume that a pair of 5s could take 5 each?
     
    Spamcan81, Nov 28, 2016
    #116
  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    To be honest, no, I am not, but isn't that the point? I realise that you are asking a perfectly reasonable question rather than having an unnecessary dig for the sake of it. However can I ask you, and especially some others, to consider this.

    Bob Meanley and Andy Taylor were at Birmingham International yesterday morning. They are two people who, in my view, and in different ways, have had and continue to have a considerable influence on what goes on with steam on the main line. (For example, one has to assume that the NR load limits for steam did not come out of the head of some planner at Milton Keynes.) I had a conversation with each of them. It is not exactly the same scenario but the thinking of the VT team when they 'pulled' the Pannier from their trip last weekend and the instructions to the driver of the role of the Class 47 yesterday both illustrate how careful operators have to be nowadays.

    We were not in a situation yesterday where there was the opportunity to take a run up the Lickey unassisted with 10 on. Had that been possible then I agree that there is a pretty good chance that Ian Riley's locos might have handled the ascent ok. What we don't know is whether WCRC would have taken that risk if the Cardiff shunt move had been different, they didn't take a diesel, but they then saw the pathing stop at Bromsgrove.

    Times change; risk assessments change. I don't believe that steam TOCs can take the risk that we know might happen, for example, when the freight sat down on the Marches Line north of Abergavenny at this time of year in 2013 and delayed a Steam Dreams trip. Steam charters are under greater scrutiny and it is 2016 not 1955.

    [Edit: P.S. Of course, 1955: 7 coaches = c220 tons; 2016 - 5 coaches plus payload = 190 tons]
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
    Big Al, Nov 28, 2016
    #117
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  18. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Also there is a difference between working Mr Riley's engines hard, and "thrashing" them. Unassisted up the Lickey particularly from a standing start would involve considerably more effort than with some banking assistance.
    Ian needs to manage his engines. I suspect he doesn't mind his engines working hard within reason, but thrashed, certainly not.

    Gone are the days when there were another 800-odd Black 5's spread around the system.

    46118
     
    46118, Nov 28, 2016
    #118
  19. jamesd

    jamesd Member

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    I acccept all the arguments but I'm sure the two fives would have got up there. After all,Tyseley's two panniers took 8 up unassisted from a standing start in 2014.
     
    jamesd, Nov 28, 2016
    #119
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  20. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Another good show up front from Riley's Fives with plenty of noise and power ! The 47 provided assistance here and there but nothing that was to overpowering apart from the Lickey which was expected. Abergavenny on the return was special and the sound up the Lickey was super and no one could take anything away from the pair as they lighted up the night sky ! Hope you enjoy my account of the day.

     
    LMarsh1987, Nov 28, 2016
    #120
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