West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Personal experience - it's been late every time I've used it meaning a missed connecton at Taunton. Once it didn't turn up and a later enquiry to Buses of Somerset revealed that on that day the bus was full that trip so didn't even go down to the station. There's no real-time information at any of the stops, nor even a number to call or text to find out where the bus is.

 

Noted. Anecdotal only then. Expecting realtime information on bus routes outside major conurbations is very optimistic. How hard is it to Google their website?

 

It isn't, assuming that one has (a) a suitable smartphone and (b) mobile signal with which to use it, not to mention (c) confidence that the customer enquiries will actually be able to tell me anything useful. But anecdotal experience will be what influences people - for good or ill - about how they perceive things - much more than statistics. The story told by @Kingscross fits with my prejudices about rural bus services, and would easily confirm me in a view that the 28 is not a safe option, especially if connections are tight - see elsewhere here on NatPres about bus connections at BL.

To take a different example. It takes me about 2 hours to drive to the NYMR from home given normal traffic. But until I'd done that drive, it never occurred to me to do it, and I was influenced by the hassle & expense of getting there by public transport. Strangely enough, I didn't go. Had the option been there to make the journey by sensibly timed & routed train, I might well have visited sooner.

Therein, though, also lies the catch. The investment would have had to rely on a lot of people like me who "might have" been influenced - which requires a view of probability and risk to be taken of the value of the improved connection.

I wish this experiment well, and will be interested to see what comes of it; for good or for ill.

 

All noted. Whilst I wish the experiment well and am glad the TOC are taking the chance I remain sceptical about the viability of it. I can only assume that the TOC have done their market research and based on that decided it is worth the risk.

 

Does anyone know which engines are allocated to which diagrams tomorrow, Saturday 3rd December, please?

 

I have been a member of the WSRA for around 30 years. In all that time, there has never been a point where someone wasn't speculating, arguing or thinking about joining the WSR to the national network with a regular service and someone else wasn't saying that it'll never work, no-one will use it, it'll be prohibitively expensive, etc.etc. Here we are today, and still the same fact-free arguments are being put forward on both sides, those who know anything about anything are still being ignored in favour of the airing of prejudices, in short, no progress.

However, now we will have some facts: a TOC is going to run a regular service. Perhaps it would be a good idea if everyone waited to see what happens instead of rushing out the negativity yet again. Even if you simply look at it as re-opening BL as a national network station, the evidence from the huge majority of station re-openings throughout the country since the Beeching cuts is that such things are revenue-positive. Here there isn't even the cost of refurbishment to be taken into account.

 

What would be involved, signalling wise, to enable the token to be set down at NFW instead of TN?

 

As Robin said there already is an intermediate token instrument at NF.

 

Yes, I saw that, but she also said that despite that, the token would be taken to TN.

 

An intermediate token instrument is not the same as a token station, as no doubt Robin can give chapter and verse on. It is exactly the same as the situation at Grosmont on the Esk Valley line.

 

AFAICS, Robin said that a loco on the triangle would be trapped there until the shuttle reached TN. It would obviously be better if the loco could proceed to BL as soon as the shuttle was on NR metals. I was wondering if achieving this would be complicated and therefore expensive or simple and therefore possibly not too expensive and doable.

 

I would think it would require full signalling and probably a loop to do so. A train going from BL to Taunton is on the single line until it is on NR metals so it can't give up the token until that point when it is clear of the section. Thus it would have to stop once clear of the junction to do so. Similarly, with a train travelling onto the single line. The token station is at Taunton to avoid this. The intermediate token instrument allows a train/loco to be locked in off the single line to enable another train to occupy it.
As a non-WSR person, that's my reading of it.

 

Thanks. "Full signalling" sounds expensive. Would that mean reinstating a box at NFW?

 

Well, it could be remotely controlled. It's not rocket science but not cheap. There are several ways of doing these things but the need to ensure there are no conflicting movements is always paramount.

 

The service is appalling (worse now the 18 Webberbus is no more), its 1.5 hrs +. If you pick one that has loaded up with Butlineers and their luggage and stand most of the way, it is a noisy, uncomfortable, unpleasant experience. The NF to Taunton section is terribly slow mornings and evenings. As First have no competition (they have effectively driven many competitors out of business on many routes), most of the buses are old noisy and slow. As one who travels the A39 weekly to MD, the road and its traffic levels just keep getting worse. What it will be like when (if) Hinkley gets going I dread to think.

Rob

 

Ah, yes, Hinkley Point. "Where shall we build our new nuclear power station?" "Next to the only nuclear power station with no rail connection, of course".

 

I really was asking about the TN to BL section which is what the shuttle service will compete with. I am not sure that First have driven the competition out of business as such. More a question of too much capacity and the withdrawal of subsidies.

 

In regard to the issue of having service trains on the WSR surley i would have thought that given the ungodly amount of new houses TDBC seem to be imposing on this part of Somerset, the obvious thing to do is let FGW (or whoever) run a early morning train Minehead-Bristol and a return in the evening, although this will need some of the boxes open earlier than present. Ive been on services with Crowcombe box locked out, but is anyone aware what is the minimum numbers of boxes that would NEED to be manned, obviously Blue Anchor and Wiliton (for the crossings) but if the route was set and signals off could they manage with just them? and of course the elephant in the room is a whole year round service that the line doesn't operate at the minute, that there is gonna be a real snag

 

In principle, boxes are needed to be open at BA and WN, but (and it is a very BIG BUT) that would incur the costs of switching out arrangements for Bishops Lydeard and Minehead and remote monitoring of Minehead level crossing. Those costs would be very substantial, and given that Exeter panel would be involved, and knowing the recent costs of signalling schemes, I doubt south of £1M as commercial work.

The next step is the potential trial (now subject to the uncertainties flowing from the recent delays to the GWR electrification scheme and the consequent rolling stock cascade) of a service extension to BL to meet WSR services. And getting behind that.

Some form of switching arrangements to allow a TN to BL shuttle with a modern unit to operate before and after WSR services should BL to TN be required for 'commuter' or 'park and ride' would not be in the same financial league, but is by no means a zero cost option. Say £250,000. Plainly a trial of this with signalmen rather than signalling alterations is the sensible first step.

Robin