West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Ah, those were my words. @Bayard had missed out a quote tag.

In that post I'd said I didn't think the Borders/Waverley line was comparable only for @Bayard to say "what about the Waverley line?" All I have in reply is: I've been to Taunton and I formerly lived in Edinburgh for several years. Taunton is no Edinburgh.

 

The more I read about that period of history, the more I am convinced it was nationalisation by the Attlee government that saved our railways. Without it, And without the Treasury to then underwrite the organisation, the cuts would have been faster and deeper and modernisation of the remnant would have been quicker. We would have been left with something resembling the Serpell Report network, or like the modern network in New Zealand, and preservation of lines of any length would be highly unlikely.

 

Why? Does the fact that a huge number of staff and volunteers have built the line up to a successful business (and one that has a wider economic impact on the area) over many decades count for nothing? In essence you are saying "thank you for the love and attention you have shown preserving this railway for forty years - but now it is time to go, because the moral imperative is to use transport routes as public transport".

@Maunsell907 is right: the WSR is a successful heritage business, and there should be a 100% focus on developing that business. Commuter operation is a red herring, or even just seasonal mainline operation right through to Minehead. Moreover, it runs the very real danger of creating a pig in a poke: a mainline operation which isn't viable because of the physicsl constraints imposed by a heritage railway, but any changes to make the mainline operation more viable run the very real risk of removing the heritage ambience that people have thus far been prepared to pay a premium for.

I can understand the logic of running, or at least trying, TN to BL mainline trains on days when the WSR is operating and busy. (The point was made earlier that travelling by public transport to a heritage railway is far more attractive if you don't have to keep changing modes; a point amply borne out on the Bluebell by just how few people ever started a journey at Kingscote when that station was at the end of a two mile bus journey from East Grinstead). But I think trying to run a regular mainline service along the whole line risks ruining what makes the heritage line special while creating a poorly-patronised and unprofitable mainline service.

Tom

 

I don't see any problem. Surely almost all were built with the objective of making a profit? Maybe I am missing your point but I just don't see where the moral dimension comes into it. Lots of things might be morally better but except in totalitarian states are simply not feasible on economic grounds. God forbid the idea of de facto nationalization of heritage lines to provide non heritage services which is effectively what the Minehead COC seem to want.

 

I think the arguments being made are a little more broad based than the wishes of the Minehead COC to be fair.
That said the line is only there today because of 40 years of hard work, largely undertaken by and or supported by volunteers. This makes them a significant stakeholder (morally) in any discussion going forward.
The simple and obvious question has been alluded to before. Is the railway better for the local people and businesses within the area as a heritage attraction or as a commuter line?
What would be the impact on the local economy of the line reverting to a virtually unmanned commuter service? Who would pay the cost of upgrading the line to allow this to happen?
As far as I know there is no suggestion that the WSR plc would be happy to attempt to fund (or even part fund) and run a commuter service. The very best that is likely to happen is that a TOC runs into BL to provide a direct rail connection from the network to the WSR. The only rational for this has to be the potential increase in PAX using the WSR.

Maunsell907 has it right when he says there are only two priorities for the WSR, increase bums on seats and get more external funding to keep the Heritage Railway going. Everybody who loves this railway needs to focus on this clear objective.

 

There were some comments a while back about local businesses providing period style adverts on stations.

One well-run local business - The Luttrell Arms at Dunster - is there alrrady, as shown below on the 'modesty screen' outside the Gents at Minehead.

Robin

 

It seems that Sir Humphrey and his friends have discovered WIBN. Should this happen - and like many others I have my doubts - how
would heritage railways such as the WSR deal with anomalies such as this if TOC commuter trains were a success and ran frequently?
The TOC might become responsible for track maintenance and possibly would want to own the freehold.

Knowing the defensive nature of many folks on the WSR I am taking the usual cover as advocated in many other folks posts on NP.

 

Make room for me in the bomb shelter! A recent posting jncluded links to T.V. news reports over 25 years old when a previous outbreak of W.I.B.N. linked to a "commuter service" proposal nearly did for the W.S.R. A relic of those times is a 22 mile journey which, as I have said elsewhere, is much the same as Portsmouth to Southampton. 22 miles! The motto for all tourist railways ought to be "Get thee behind me W.I.B.N."

PH

 

Will braunton still be running as 34052 on her visit to WSR on Saturday 17th

 

She should be as she is not due to change back yet to her real identity. Last update on this said she may still be 34052 for the end of Southern Steam events next year.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

 

Sorry, that was Forestpines - I left out a quote tag in my reply to him.

Please point out where I, not someone else, said that there would be any demand for "non heritage passenger services on reopened branch lines" (actually I think that there would be some seasonal demand, not for non-heritage services as such, but people using the WSR simply as public transport - holidaymakers going to Minehead deciding to travel all the way by train- but not a huge amount. Perhaps other posters who volunteer on with NR-connected railways could give some idea of how many of this type of passenger their railways carry.)

Aha, so it's the old "let's not do anything because that will make us liable to be forced (in what way is never specified) to do something quite different" argument. If the WSR has successfully resisted the siren calls of Mr Mendoza and his fellow-thinkers to run a commuter service to Minehead for all these years, do you really think they will roll over simply because a TOC decides to run a TN=MD link?

Well, yes, I'd agree with you there.

 

That's because, when you said the "Borders" line, I didn't know you were talking about the "Waverley" line.

 

PH, when was the last time you, or anyone you knew, walked two miles in the rain to a railway station? Don't all rail users who live that far from a station drive there in their car or get a lift?

 

Well i still say that doing nothing different and having the railway stuck in some sort of aspic really isnt the way forward, when (a few years ago) the T&T 31's ran from Bristol bringing the Butlin Peeps into Minehead that seamed to work well and was popular and only stopped because the operator went under, Butlins seamed more than happy to the extent they tried to get someone else to take over the running of it after it finished. If they come in by rail they MIGHT be more likely to use the WSR's own services in the week. And anyone that says all the new builds are going up on the wrong side of Taunton even without taking into account the houses already built at Dunster,Whatchet (not forgetting to now empty paper mill site) the Commando base has already got a date to shut and that is already earmarked for housing and the massive Staplegrove area development, there are now and will only get bigger the possible passenger count to travel on the line, Minehead and the surrounding area has not got the same population it had when the line shut but the main roads out are exactly the same

 

It is important to differentiate between this sort of service, which is essentially no different from a main line charter running to Minehead, and a scheduled public transport service. Just because one works doesn't mean the other would. OTOH, equally, the unlikelihood of a scheduled service being viable should in no way inhibit the WSR from repeating the Butlins trains, if the previous ones made money.

While there might be more demand for public transport rail services in West Somerset, it is very unlikely to be enough to make anything other than the proposed BL-TN link viable. "Lots of houses" doesn't translate into "lots of rail passengers".

 

This is what all rural dwellers had to do before the motor bus came, principally between 1918 and 1939, to steal the railway traffic. It was quite obvious in my posting that I was referring to that period. The position is even worse for rural public transport today as, in turn, the private car has eaten into bus traffic. As I say to all W.I.B.Nites, "Get real",

PH

 

Oh. dear. It seems another W.I.B.N. partisan is with us. Poor old W.S.R., they must have thought this kind of argument had been sorted 30+ years ago.

PH

 

It may have been obvious to you, but not to me. I thought we were discussing public transport rail travel realities today in relation to the WSR, not pre-war.

 

Anyway. Robin, what were you alluding to a few pages back when you hinted there might be something interesting for 2017?!

 

Now I must get a bit fierce and ask that you read accurately what I say and not what it suits you to think I say. Another person had posted using the expression "moral imperative" which appeared to mean that preference should be given to the sort of use for which the line was built, over its use as a tourist attraction. My point, in response to that post, was that by 1939 the customers (not just on this line) had transferred their "affections" to rural bus services and there was no longer any "moral imperative" as a consequence.

PH