Steam preserved but what about the Electric Traction

Yes, I get that.

Don't over-estimate the difficulty of upgrading the track circuits. All you would need to change would be the power supply and relay for each one. You could use a contact of this new relay to pick up the old one, which could become a repeater and would still be in all of the other circuits, as you only need to provide immunity for circuits outside the relay room. How many track circuits are there? I can't imagine it's more than about 15. OK, there is a little more to it than that but not a lot. In fact, if I'm not pushing up daisies by then and still hold the appropriate licence then I'll design it for you.
The ORR concerns are well placed and clearly any electrified 'heritage line' would need to be run more along main line than heritage railway lines from a staff/operational perspective, but (a) a lot can change in 25 years and (b) in any case most established heritage lines already have a few volunteers who work for the "big railway" and hold main line PTS and other certification, so I don't see it as insurmountable - merely "very difficult".
But look at this another way. If heritage railways the length of the country all ran with DMUs and suddenly one popped up and said "we want to restore and run a 100 year old steam engine" and thee was no precedent and it had never been done before, do you think the ORR would have something to say about that? Volunteers working on large pressure vessels, etc.? I would suggest there would be a myriad of hoops to jump through and plenty of people would say "they will never allow it". I would also suggest that they would be wrong. The legislation around any of these potentially dangerous activities isn't designed to stop things from happening, it's to stop them from happening in an uncontrolled and unregulated and unsafe manner. It forces people to stop and think, and hopefully keeps the idiots at bay, but it shouldn't stop anybody doing anything provided that they do it properly. And if for electric railways that means applying a different set of safety requirements then it is then up to the proposer to decide if they wish to continue on that basis.
But it's all hypothetical, of course.

And this is where we must agree to disagree, because whilst it's just about possible to argue that something like a VEP has 'grandfather rights' you'd never get NR to sanction the running of something like the 2BIL in passenger service on their infrastructure. And something like the 2BIL is what you're going to need to make it an attractive heritage proposition and not just a niche plaything for a few enthusiasts.

 

a VEP is basically a Mk1 so you'd get away with it on that score, but oh my all those slam doors would kill it stone dead.

 

Precedent for batteries already exists with trials on modern units. Whether there is any scope for getting experimental funding to try something similar on a heritage unit remains to be seen but of course offering such a unit for trials may make those trials cheaper than when taking an otherwise active unit out of service whilst still demonstrating the ability of the batteries and control systems. From what I recall of a presentation on these trials one of the types of battery used was actually made up of large numbers of small readily available cells (like you can buy in the shops) made up into a special frame.

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/independently-powered-electric-multiple-unit-ipemu-essex/

 

I think it would be feasible to modify 25kV locomotives or stock so that it could run at reduced speed from a lower voltage DC overhead supply.

 

How much money are you offering for the modifications?

 

The idea mooted about a low voltage rail-the problem here is that power=volts x amps. So if you ran an EMU at 50v, you'd be drawing a huuuge amount of current. Drawing huge amounts of current makes the resistance of the wires have a much bigger effect (Ohms law), leading to large voltage drops and the wires getting very hot! This is why the national grid and OHL main lines use several Kilovolts-the current draw is smaller, leading to less voltage drop due to the wires resistance. Only drawback is that high voltage will jump quite large gaps, so it gets stepped down to 230v to make it useable at home. That being the reason 25KV OHL won't happen-it's stupidly dangerous stuff.

The issue regarding staff training isn't what I understand the ORR to be concerned about-although you can bet that coupling/uncoupling next to a live rail would be banned. They're more worried about trespassers getting fried. Though I firmly believe our H&S regs are a good thing, and an excellent system when applied properly, I do feel that someone stupid enough to wander on a railway should expect a sticky end.

 

You'd be building a new loco, in effect. AC locos do clever things with the transformer windings to get speed control, whereas DC traction uses big banks of resistors. Not sure how the motors would cope either. I have wondered if you could do 25mph and short trains on a much lower voltage, but again you'd need big modifications and redesigns. All of which needs the relevant safety paperwork, so you don't kill anyone. Frustratingly, I'd imagine 1500Vdc would have half a shout of being OK-shame there'd be naff all to run on it!

 

I'm one of those "steam buffs" and have little interest in diesel or electric traction. But I do think it would be a shame not to preserve some examples of EMU & DMU units. As a commuter I traveled on 4-SUB, 4-COR and 2-EPB units daily and I'd quite like to have seen some if these preserved.

 

If someone came up with an interesting project, I'd consider making a small donation, although personally I'm more interested in steam.
Where are you proposing to run it?

 

examples of each are preserved.

 

I am also a steam enthusiast but have a bit of a liking for, and interest in, the blue diesel/electric era. My favourites were the class 504s on the Manchester-Bury line, one of which is preserved, I travelled on those thousands and thousands of times and they were unfailingly reliable.

 

With solid-state converters it should be possible to convert 1500Vdc overhead to 750V and feed it into a DC unit's power line. Or (given the maximum speed would be 25mph) erect 750Vdc overhead wiring. I can't expect the owners of preserved units would want to see them hacked about to add a pantograph, so put the pantograph (and DC-DC converter if necessary) on a van and marshal it between two of the unit's coaches.

Of course, the Bluebell being an ex-LBSCR line, the One True Electrification System for Ardingly ought to be 6.7kV AC overhead, but then there'd be even less stock to run on it!

 

But if you're putting a van in, might as well fit a genny set in it and save on both the cost and wrong look of OHL for a 3rd rail unit? Though you could run the class 71 on OHL I suppose...

I think the problem with electric preservation in general is the "interest gap"-the time between them just being knackered old stock folk were glad to be rid of, and people suddenly realising that 30 years later, they are now historic. Again, taking an example from Crich-we have trams such as Sheffield 510, Leeds 602 and others from the 50s/60s that were not even a decade old when preserved. People were sceptical then, now they are accepted as historic items. More recently, we've returned Blackpool 762 to service-a very heavily modified balloon, running in 2000's era condition. Many people have moaned, but in a decade or two...
Problem is, keeping things in good condition until people take an interest. Again, EMUs suffer here-you need at least two matching driving cars to make operation realistic.
I was reading up on the 504 units, apparently they have both running in the early 90s with a Class 20 in the middle. Now, one is scrapped.

 

SR DEMUs are basically a SR EMU powered by a heavy EE 4 cylinder lump at one end of a MK1 carriage. Same Compressor, contactors, ETH, 27 way loom, EE motors etc etc . Indeed the original intention was to remove the Diesel once the SR had completed infill electrification . Today the biggest problem is looking after all those doors especially a 207 with non standard ones like ours but if you get your act together that is not insurmountable. Public seem to love them on midweek trains, they cost next to nothing to run and only need a driver and guard so railway happy as well. Wish we had another unit.

 

What about beefing up the batteries in a MLV?

 

I must admit that the DEMU's/Gig & 33 combo that I have travelled on in the last few years gave a reasonable approximation to a SR EMU

What about the nisery line (whoops LTSR) set at Magnapps - all sliding doors?

 

Somewhere for the class 77 Electra to run. If I remember correctly it even has a Stones vapour boiler for train heating.

 

There was a similar discussion earlier this year, prompted by the 4-CIG the Epping Ongar film set...er, Railway, were kicking out. This bought up mention of two pre-war EMUs that could, in theory, be easier to put back on the main line as they have air operated doors. In fact both have ran as preserved units. Unfortunately they'd both need a lot of money throwing at them!

Class 503: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_503

Class 306: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_306

 

Thank you. That's good to know.

 

That seems to work well for Craven Heritage Trains (who preserve London underground trains)
http://cravensheritagetrains.co.uk/