UK Railtours - End of Southern Steam - 2017 Commemoratives

I have read the various posts on here about this train, since it 'went public' on Friday afternoon, and it is perhaps of no great surprise that most are majoring on the price, rather than the bold decision to stage a re-run of the famous "Bournemouth Belle" 50 years after it last ran.
Make no mistake, this operation is a MASSIVE financial commitment by both UK Railtours and the MNLPS. It is encouraging that the majority of respondents are understanding of why the fare is set at the level advertised, and I am rather surprised that Don - of all people - should find it "insulting" given the presumption he has some knowledge of how the costs of running ANY main-line rail tour stack up. Many have pointed out that the Premier dining fare on steam railtours these days - whoever the promoter might be - is about £225, but the cost of staging this particular train is miles north of an 'ordinary' steam charter. It must be remembered that the Belmond British Pullman set can only accommodate just over 200 passengers - compared to 350-450 on a Mk I/II set - but operating costs do NOT reduce pro rata to the number of seats available, so the fare has to reflect that. Many have pointed out that if you want the highest quality it has to be paid for, and everyone can be assured that UK Railtours and the MNLPS are NOT going to be making multinational-sized profits from this train, even if it runs 100% loaded, and the 'break even' load factor is in line with any other charter. Other people have commented that the fare compares very well indeed with both the BBP diesel-hauled charters that UK Railtours have run recently, and Belmond's own 'Surrey Hills' and Bath/Bristol steam operations.
"Who will travel on it" has been asked - "the people who want to" is the answer; whether they be enthusiasts, the vaguely interested, the great-and-the-good or the man on the Clapham Omnibus. It is a TOTAL misconception that the people who travel on the Belmond British Pullman are just the very wealthy. The vast majority are 'ordinary' people treating themselves, as they would for a myriad other special occasions.
The reason the train is going back via Romsey and Andover is twofold. The lack of turning facilities in the Bournemouth area dictates diesel haulage back to Southampton - and reversal there - anyway, and this gives more journey time to serve drinks and the 4-course dinner. The train cannot return via Fareham and Guildford (as happened sometimes with the "BB" when the line via Winchester was being electrified) because there are no robust steam pathways on the 'Portsmouth Direct' route on weekdays until much later.
We have absolute confidence that "Clan Line" will be ready in the timescale previously made known. In any event, "Tornado" is not lined up as a substitute loco.
Finally, the other train that the MNLPS and UK Railtours have planned to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the end of S.R. steam is now going to run - appropriately - on Sunday 9th July, not Saturday 8th. It will be with a Mk I set, so watch this space......

 

As this is not too far away in distance and is very close in date to a significant wedding anniversary, I had thought about booking on this. However, as:

(1) I wasn't lineside (or indeed even alive) in 1967
(2) it would be a significant outlay and not the sort of thing I could just splash out in an unthinking way, which is apparently a requirement and
(3) I might actually have a vague appreciation of the motive power up front, rather than just wanting a nice lunch

then it seems I'm not eligible to go on this trip. I'll have to look for something else to do next July.

Tom

 

Now there's a dilemma. Book on that or enjoy 34081 strutting her stuff on a commemorative do elsewhere? Decisions, decisions.

 

Yes I suppose my first post was rather knee jerk but maybe I was expecting there to be some non dining seats, as per the original Bournemouth Belle. On reflection I can see how the costs stack up if everybody is full dining. My point about being there 50 years ago is that only those of us who chased steam day and night over the last few years can really appreciate what this is all about. Although I could well afford to go I am not going to spend £900 (for two of us) of my hard earned money on this as there will be alternatives and we could have a weekend in a good hotel for that money. I have already booked on the 27th May trip and will also book for 9th July

 

I beg to differ Al. A light pacific could easily keep time on the Belle and often did. With the normal load of 10 Pullmans and a van, 455-460 tons. 55-57 mph up the bank and 75-80 mph after Worting was more than enough to keep time. In fact on 28th August 1965 BR Standard class 5 No. 73117 kept the (post electrification works) timing and arrived at Waterloo nearly two minutes early, with a max of 75 mph at Hersham. This was with Harry Pope driving . He had failed No 34002 after working the down Belle as he said it was rough and wouldn't steam, even though we had arrived two minutes early after keeping the old 34 minute booking from Southampton. On a better day and on the 2 hour schedule Dicky Budd had No. 34087 and he ran up from Soton in 82/56 (net 79 mins) with 55-56 up the bank and 82 max after arriving on time.

 

Control were acting on instructions from the GM who had decreed at 1400 on 7th July that the last Belle would be class 47 hauled, even though a Merchant had been allocated

 

I did know that there were a few of us at the Elms that evening hoping to persuade someone to cause a mechanical failure to the smelly gas machine so there would have to be a steam substitute but not surprisingly it didn't happen

 

This discussion is really perpetual, if NP had existed back in 1968 we would all be complaining about the rip off price of 1T57 . At £15.75 it was about 75% of the average weekly wage, not far short of the £450 being asked for this trip but with no Pullman comfort or meals included, so the 2017 Belle could been considered a bit of a bargain.

 

Call me a little crazy but I want the July 5th trip to sell out. Here are a few reasons why.
1. These people are going full out to pull out all of the stops to make sure this trip is SPECIAL
2. As someone who has 10 years of experience in the restaurant business I think we forget the work that goes on while passengers are away from the train to make occasions like this possible.
3. Your getting brunch and a 4-course dinner and a great prelimanary timetable.

 

My tuppence is that the 9 July trip will probably be a complete rerun of the original, with steam in both directions from Weymouth. Depends on whether DB sign to Yeovil, or 35028 (perhaps taking on the identity of 35030?) takes an LE trip to Southampton. Would be an excellent trip.

 

What a mouth-watering prospect!! Right up there with the great runs of the decade (IMHO), like VT's 2010 Bristolian and Bittern's 90mph ECML spectacular in December 2013. I'm sure that you could put your shirt on MNLPS/ UKRT/ DBC getting it right on the day....or as good as it could be within the availability of Sunday paths. Probably wouldn't come cheap, of course, but, for an outing of this stature, it would be all about Value, not about Price. Lets just hope.....

 

Its all speculation, of course, but the shifting to 9 July suggests to me that something special is in the offing.

 

The UKRT website still shows the Bournemouth Belle on 5th. What has been shifted?

 

See post #41:

 

It isn't the "Bournemouth Belle" date that has been shifted - that's still Wednesday 5th July, for all the historical reasons previously mentioned. What has changed is the next tour date, originally Saturday 8th July, has been shifted to Sunday 9th July (which of course was the final day of steam in 1967). We're just waiting for confirmation of costs from DBC and then the itinerary and fares will be published. Rolling stock will be the Riviera Mk 1 set.
Incidentally, having had a meeting with John Farrow yesterday evening, he has confirmed that tickets for the "Bournemouth Belle" are selling very well.

 

Thank you: I had read that but forgotten.

 

What would be nice is a repeat of that historic day in June on the 18.25 Weymouth-Waterloo when Royal Mail hit 106mph somewhere near Hook. Of course it won't happen I'm just pleased to have been on the original run which doesn't seem anything like 50 years ago.