Steam preserved but what about the Electric Traction

Usability doesn't come into it as far a the NRM is concerned.
The conflict that exists between pure "preservation" and preservationists wanting to use locos to the point where there is nothing original left to preserve will run and run

 

I think you have missed out Gordon Petit here..... A unit that has run on the network and still can - albeit a recent issue where she lost a shoe in a big cloud of smoke.... The Network doesnt want these old EMUs out on the metals - they're not maintained in a shed the way used to be - Gordon Petits incident has put the wind up Network Rail!

I wish the CEP project all the best but one must ask, how much money do they have and can they really afford to put it on the mainline with GSM-R, OTMR, CDL etc etc, and that is before you get the appropriate body to sign off the body modification and yes I know its going back to what it was but its still been altered significantly to what it was last running as and thus the modifications will definitely need signing off......! One must ask these questions, its been in the shed at Eastleigh for two years and one motor coach isn't anywhere near done yet - indeed, the other motor coach is untouched. Im following this project with interest..................

 

Just because they are modern, doesn't stop Electrostars or Desiros from loosing collector shoes does it - nor causing extensive damage shod one become lodged between the conductor and the running rail. As such I fail to see the relevance of the preserved VEP doing the same - particularly as 99% of such problems are down to NRs conrail condition rather than the unit.

 

Of course it doesn't stop anything loosing a shoe because its modern or old, you and I know that..... its just another excuse for NR though isn't it..... Imagine the uproar had it of happened on the mainline and blocked a road! You know as well as I do that if it had been a 375 breaking down it wouldn't cause half as much fuss.

 

Don't forget that modern EMUs have shoegear designed such that the shoe breaks off on a frangible link to prevent extensive damage to the shoebeam etc. Unfortunately older EMUs don't have this feature and tend to tip over the conductor rail and/or damage the shoebeam.

The key thing is to make sure the maintenance regime keeps the shoe within gauge, which is no different to when they were in day to day service. Up to NR then to keep the conductor rail in the correct position as well, which they shoud be doing for current service trains.

Regards,

Dan

 

Now that I did not know!

 

Some of the newer EMUs have retractable shoes as well, such as 387s. 700s don't, which is why when one was sent on test to Peterbrough and Cambridge, half the shoes got ripped off by lineside obstructions!

 

Back in the 1970s I once went to Penistone to see the 1500V DC electrics on the Woodhead line. The double headed Class 76's (EM1's) crawled by at about 10mph on the MGR coal trains - in both directions.
Did they always run at this speed, or would there have been some reason?

 

They could go faster. I was on the "Mancunian" railtour in May 1980 and we had 76011 and 76021 over Woodhead. We weren't exactly belting along but were going a lot faster than 10mph.

 

They were listed with a max speed of 65 MPH.

 

I've just picked up Decembers issue of Rail, the 306 is on the front. Apparently the NRM are taking it back for cosmetic restoration soon. The museum it is currently at have a policy of not spendong money on things they don't own, which apparently extends to ignoring a leaky roof on a loaned item for 5 years...

 

Isn't that called a Motor Luggage Van?

Get the paint colour right and the rest is easy.

 

Indeed, locos in those colours already exist.

 

Are you saying that the economic case for running EMU railtours hauled/propelled by green or blue Class 73s or 33/1s is entirely dependent on the colour that they're painted?

 

What is the potential economic case for EMU Railtours? There are precious few preserved diesels on the main line so ditto those

 

There haven't been many EMU rail tours recently but I presume there is the economic case of the 5-BEL going mainline, however that is upmarket and not your average CIG or CEP unit. Could you also include the DEMU 1001 which is very successful and visits places far away from where it worked in service.
Ultimately it's up to the owner if he / she wants to go mainline and operate over the network.

 

I'm sure that the Brighton Belle will join the Hastings Diesel group in being a success. It will, however, be more of a challenge for an EMU group wanting it to run on the main line.

The Brighton Belle offers an up-market package which will compensate for the restrictions of only the Third Rail network being available. Besides Brighton itself, some attractive destinations such as Winchester and Canterbury would be available. 1001 is not such an exciting machine but it does have the advantage of being able to go pretty well anywhere. It also has built up a loyal local clientele, picking up in an area that other tour operators rarely service. (I really regret discovering about a trip to Sheringham with 1001 only two days before it ran. There was a pick-up at Etchingham only ten miles from my home and I'd have booked if I had known about it earlier)

Herein lies the challenges for an aspiring EMU mainline operating group. They too would have to built up a local market - people might travel 150 miles to London for he Brighton Belle or to Birmingham to join an excursion hauled by 5043, but 200 miles to board a 4-VEP??? Also, Winchester and Canterbury may make an appealing destination for a journey on board the Brighton Belle but again, how big is the market for trips to these cities in a slam-door EMU?

If any group wants to show that a main line second generation EMU operation can be profitable, I would wish them well. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong and that these challenges can be overcome, but I don't think it will be easy.

 

I'm sure the Brighton Belle will be a success, although I doubt that I'll be able to afford it.

I think an earlier poster had the right idea with the suggestion of occasional PlanSpark operations, using vintage stock to run on scheduled services such as the Lymington and New Brighton lines.

 

What some of the above have said. There may be enough electric fans for railtours with 73 haulage on 3rd rail routes, only way to find out, is to do it. Another market may be seaside trips aimed at the public. They wouldn't be interested in the stock, so cheap fares for a simple out and back trip may work. No way of knowing until it is tried. Starting points don't always have to be London. Horsham, Redhill, etc. to Hastings, Deal, Margate, Bognor, where ever normal services don't go to from a particular town.The loco haulage is just a way to get EMU's back on the main line, as hauled stock. Of course, 4TC's were only ever that anyway. There are 73's and 33's already available. I was going to say that old EMU's don't seem to be allowed back on the main line, then I remembered the Brighton Belle. Using existing locos would enable those groups that can't afford the major work needed for the BB to power itself, to achieve the same end result, main line action.

 

wouldn't it be cheaper to run these excursions using existing excursion stock rather than EMUs? I can't see people preferring to ride in an EMU to a mk1/2 somehow. They are what they are, rather utilitarian people carriers. I'd suspect more people would prefer an excursion behind a 73 and wouldn't be too pushed on the rolling stock