The Douglas Bay Horse Tramway

Some good news - Douglas tram curtailment plan stopped – for now

http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news/?p=16027

David R

 

I haven't read all the posts so I might be repeating what's already been said.

Good news that they have given a stay of execution. Hopefully this will buy time towards a permanent solution.

However, I have mixed feelings about the horse tramway. It's a nice tourist attraction, and adds to the variety of heritage transport on the island. However ....

• In the 21st century do we really want to be using horses as beasts of burden?
• The ride is very, very slow. You can walk almost as fast, and that's before you add in the waiting time.

My preferred solution would be to extend the Manx Electric Railway from Derby Castle, right along the promenade and through to the railway and bus stations. The MER has a very inconvenient terminus at Derby Castle, which must discourage some tourists from using it. SFAIK the MER trams are under-utilised, and could be used to provide a frequent and much faster service along the promenade, even providing decent public transport connections. No reason that horse trams couldn't be demonstrated on special occasions.

I know this won't happen, because the money isn't available, but I hope that the Manx Government doesn't make decisions now that take away options for the future.

 

You say this as though they are being ill treated in some way. What is wrong with having horses working for a living?
As for it being a slow ride, what is wrong with that? If people want speed, they enter the TT.

 

I am in no position to say one way or the other, However I recall reading of someone who became a pioneer motorist simply because, as someone who loved horses, he was aware of the privations suffered by the carriage horse.

PH

 

Things have changed a tad since the pioneer days of the motor car. If the Douglas tram horses are suffering privation, prosecutions would result.

 

I think the ill treatment of such horses at the time was not the pulling of the vehicles themselves, but in poor stabling, handling, feeding, care, etc., which was unfortunately widespread.

 

I did make a proviso that I was unable to comment from personal experience. However the individual cited was a doctor concerned about his own carriage horses. His de Dion car did not catch a chill through being out in all weathers.

PH

 

As I said earlier, the event you are quoting was from c.100 years ago and animal welfare standards then were a bit different than they are now. Certainly in the UK working horses are treasured possessions and as such they are cosseted by their owners.

 

Not sure of the breed of horse used on the Tramway, but one thing that I do know is that there has been a drastic decline in the number of Heavy Horses over the past half-century. Anything that would help "preserving" and safeguarding these endangered horse breeds - and genuine employment is one of them - must be a good thing. Giddy Up!!

Cheers,

Alan

 

I'd wager that they use Clydesdales on the trams but the equine expert in the house is out riding her own steed at the moment. You're quite right about endangered breeds, many have come close to extinction and only by finding them meaningful work can their survival chances be improved. They are very powerful animals and the work they are asked to do in this day and age is not strenuous.

 

I'm sure that the Tramway horses are well treated. They look healthy enough to me. But nevertheless it's a form of slavery, in that the animals have no choice. It's an extreme point of view, I know.

Nothing wrong if people are just wanting a ride, but if they actually want a useful service then an electric tram would be better.

 

Slavery? - an extreme point of view is right. I'm sure you mean well but the vast majority of horses all over the world do some sort of "work" to justify their very existence. It might be trams, racing, point-to-point, show jumping, etc. In some parts of the developing world they are still used in agriculture..

If all these horses suddenly had no function beneficial to their owners then how many would end up in the knackers yard? Clearly you are a horse lover but do you really believe that a world without working horses would suddenly become so charitable as to put them all in some sort or retirement home, let alone breed the next generation.

If your philosophy was followed to it's logical conclusion horses could become an endangered species. Douglas Tramways should be commended for preserving both heritage and horses.

 

What a load of old ballocks. Actually horses do have a choice of sorts as my partner can tell you when hers decides it ain't gonna jump and she goes over the fence on her own.
I consider your remark close to trolling.

 

Horse power was a very important element of rail transport for much of its history. In view of that I think the continued existence of the horse tram is something to be treasured.

I think there would be much more danger and stress to horses should, for instance, a heritage railway put on a demonstration of shunting using horse power without the operators or the horses having much previous experience.

 

I have my doubts that he is.

 

Perhaps now the heading should be modified to
The end for the Douglas horse trams...NOT!

 

OK, a few responses to the above.

Animal exploitation is an important part of our history and development as a civilisation. That alone doesn't justify its continuation. There has to be a justifiable need.

If we believe that an animal has to justify its existence, then I think our relationship with the non-human world needs to be re-examined. Why can't we just let animals exist for their own sake?

These horses will end up in the knackers yard anyway, sooner or later. The question is, should we be breeding them in the first place? They are not natural breeds. They have been selectively bred to do work for humans. If someone wants top preserve the breed that's fine. They shouldn't have to work to justify their preservation.

Trolling ... can't we be grown up about this?

I'm not a horse-lover in particular. I just think that animal exploitation has had its day, and we need to move on. The process of civilisation.

Doesn't anyone think that extending the electric tramway would be a better idea?

 

What about dogs bred to do work for humans?. Should I stop sponsoring guide dog puppies? Do the Police 'exploit' the animals specifically trained to search for drugs/people/explosives and cash?

 

Only if you can. You post deliberately contentious views, most of which are nonsense in the eyes of many, designed to stir things up and that is close to trolling.

 

Don't feed him John. I've said my piece and I'm going to ignore him from now on.