Original Paint Jobs

Personally I'm struggling with this. I've been involved with steam preservation for almost fifty years, and we worked on the basis of preserving a locomotive with a coat of paint attached. I can't get my head around preserving a coat of paint with a locomotive attached.

 

The miniature-maker Gerald Scarborough remarked in one of his books that the sole purpose of the exquisitely-crafted plastic model was to hold the paint in the right shape...

 

It seems to be a 'museum thing'. For many years I helped a pal with his farm museum in return for having somewhere to keep my steamroller. We tended to restore all our exhibits from 'bare metal' or 'rubbed down' wood with new paint matching, as near as possible, that which the items were painted new. On several occasions we exhibited at a site owned by Manx National Heritage and were concerned that many of their agricultural exhibits were rusting/rotting away, outside, for want of a coat of paint. When we raised this concern we were told that it was a deliberate policy because they wanted to keep the original finish. Words failed us!
Ray.

 

There is a difference between a paint finish in the style of Crewe and a Crewe paint finish. You can recreate the former any time. Once the last survivors of the latter have gone, they're gone forever.

Think of it this way. One of the thrills I get in my job, in a historic house, is knowing that the objects we work with are tangible links to the past. When I look in the mirrors, I know that all the previous owners of the house from 1750 saw their faces in that glass, too. To me, there's something very special about that.

46235's paint was actually brushed on by the men of Crewe in the steam age. We can try to recreate those skills, but we can never recreate that tangible link back to those men - men who, quite likely, worked for the great men like Stanier, Ivatt and Riddles.

I guess some people will just never "get" that idea, but that's really the best way I can try to explain it.

 

Obviously, you have to make judgements in these situations. If you're going to display exhibits outdoors, maintaining original paint finishes is probably unrealistic, and obviously you have to balance the conservation of the paint against the conservation of the fabric of the object.

 

Well, sometimes the paint is part of what you should be preserving...

 

I can see what your saying easily enough, it's more the thought of the general public seeing a poor/worn paintjob and thinking something like "boy that looks tatty, this Musueum/Railway, must not really care about their exhibits" , is that an impression we want to risk many getting ?.

 

Personally I would value an original paintjob, as there are so few of them left, and it showcases the skills and techniques of a lost age.

On the whole, I think the painting skills of the preservation movement are of a very high standard, and certainly the general public are very appreciative of the way locos are turned out. I do have some reservations about Exhibition finishes. In real life, exhibition finishes were reserved for exhibitions. Normal ex-works condition is usually a very high standard whilst exhibition finishes are over the top. Overdoing the varnish and the burnished metal will give the general public a false impression of what locos looked like when new or freshly overhauled. I think Flying Scotsman is an excellent example of an ex-works finish.

BTW ... I saw 46235 in Crewe paintshop c1966 and I thought it looked splendid. Even now, the lining and lettering looks good. It's just the patch painting that spoils the effect. I can't blame the museum for touching up, as this helps to preserve the metal. And matching paints is a notoriously difficult task, especially if the original paint has changed colour over the decades.

 

It is a museum thing. Locos and rolling stock preserved for operation and outdoor display cannot possibly retain their original paintjobs for long. The British weather is a very effective paint stripper.

 

The first without a doubt as that's Uninterpreted History. Irrespective of its condition there it will still contain source information.
An example: On a flying visit to STEAM some years ago, I was very annoyed to see that the buffer planks on 9400 had been repainted. Doing so means there's no guarantee that the red is an accurate depiction of what was originally applied, and the numbers (which were transfers & the precise point of my visit) cannot be regarded as definitive any more. Relatively minor details I know, but it opens the door to further titivation which eats away at source reference material & when that's gone it's gone forever.

In the case of preservation paint finishes, we go too far. Swindon certainly didn't titz about with 600 grit in the quest for a looks-like-it-was-sprayed finish, but that tends to be our default setting (myself included). We also make compromises that actually negate past skills - for instance: near enough=good enough colours, sprayed finishes, lining jobs done with tape, the use of vinyls for lettering etc. - all things I strive to avoid at all costs, but which can only be achieved by referring to source material.

There are plenty of unrestored/conserved exhibits in our museums & I don't believe the general public give two hoots that they're not blinged up, provided that there's something to tell them what they're looking at.

Pete S.
C&W Dept.,
GWS Didcot.

 

A couple of posts on a model engineering forum I frequent shed some light on paint finishes:

http://modeleng.proboards.com/post/144003/thread
http://modeleng.proboards.com/post/144443/thread

Regards,

Dan

 

I actually think some members of the public would prefer an ancient object to look ancient rather than pristine.

 

I can't remember his name but isn't the gent who painted 46233 an ex BR painter?, I believe he's painted and lined out a few loco's, (I couldn't say for certain what ones) but how would you class his work? An ex BR painter using modern materials but with traditinal techniques. Although isn't this what we do with loco repairs anyway?

 

Which is why the NRM deliberately kept the Lynton and Barnstaple coach in 'as found' condition - 'Bauxite' too IIRC. As long as they are protected from the elements and properly described they have just as an important story to tell (maybe more) as an immaculately restored vehicle. The important point is to protect the fabric from further deterioration.
Ray.

 

Is the penultimate standard gauge loco from 20th century in the UK still in its original paint, as in when first released by Hunslet, 3889, Number 65, or "the yellow Peril" as it was know?

 

34051 was in original paint for years after 1965. Has it been repainted more recently?

 

Quite recently, in connection with the 50th anniversary of Churchill's death:

http://www.nrmfriends-south.org.uk/NewsItems/WinstonCcampaign.html

Tom

 

Probably the nearest we'll get to a BR workshop finish. The important thing (IMO) is that this gent and others like him are passing on their skills and methods to a new generation of restorers, so that we can continue to enjoy an authentic finish on restored locos and rolling stock.

 

It's called patina - the latest thing; unfortunately it seems to be taken as a shorthand for completely worn out.

 

Is there a way of 'preserving' an original finish well?

I have seen an article somewhere about an Alfa romeo being restored with a precise 50:50 split down the middle, one side being pristine, and the other kept as original as possible- the only way they were able to maintain the 'original' finish was to use a clearcoat over the top- otherwise the 'originalness' would have gradually degraded.

It poses a question- at what point does originalness and gradual degradation (which is inevitable) become a problem and at what stage does intervention have to occur? One could argue that it is just part of the ageing process- but would this have been seen as acceptable in the time that these machines were operational- and surely in most cases that is the image we are trying to preserve?

Chris