Buxton Spa Express - Feb 2017

If a repeat destination is to be offered, then less is definitely more- this has proved to be the case on numerous occasions over the past ten years I've been observing and participating in the mainline scene, and is one of the reasons why repeat itineraries are not the panacea the promoters think they are. Both TBEL and RTC have demonstrated the issues. Just sticking your finger in the air and hoping the wind blows in the right direction for a successful season of ten trips between the same two points is not a sure road to success. Equally, it is a bit rich to expect passengers to alter their plans to fill the others up, which seems to be the case in relation to Buxton.

Timings aside, whilst 25 February is still good, it wasn't a patch on 4 February's offering overall, which is why I booked the latter. Seven times out of ten, I take up the offer of a refund unless its a trip I really want to do (I have yet to reach Buxton by steam, so will probably make this one of the thirty per cent), which feeds into the Catch 22 situation raised by Al. I'd rather make a decision on the merits of doing a future trip in the fullness of time than immediately transferring over the telephone.

 

Thank you for the change.

Yes I agree. I was surprised at two tours to the same location in such a short time had been organised. Even more so knowing that the engineering work around Manchester and the work on the Bolton to Euxton Junction stretch. But the organisers must be culpable for that. Getting to and from Manchester in recent months from Preston etc has been a challenge even for the Northern Heritage Railway.

 

Good afternoon all. May I ask a question (as a promoter).

Given that there is the chance that any railtour might be modified, rescheduled or even cancelled, why do enthusiasts who know the possible pitfalls still buy non-refundable hotel rooms? Surely it is worth paying an extra £10/ night for the ability to cancel without losing all your hard earned money - this hobby of ours is already expensive enough!

Alternatively, I believe you can get travel insurance for £6 per day. If travel insurance was offered as part of the ticket, might that be an acceptable option?

Regards

Ben - VT

PS - Sorry Mods for going off on a tangent

 

OH, WHAT A LET DOWN​

A play in one act by the Railway Touring Company.​

Scene 1: The lounge, Wistle Cottage, Tuesday 5.20pm, an open letter lies on the table. Mrs W who has had a streaming cold returns from work to be greeted by her husband, Oswald . . .

Oswald: "How's the nose?"

Mrs W: "Still running!"

Oswald: "Not like my train to Buxton, then."

Mrs W: [in a oft used tone that anticipates a catastrophic mechanical failure] "What's gone wrong this time?"

Oswald: Cancelled, not enough tickets sold."

[A short pause]

Mrs W: "What about my train on the twenty-fifth?"

Oswald: "That's still running."

Mrs W: [with mock annoyance] "Oh bugger!"

The radio in the kitchen begins playing The Jolly Boys version of "You can't always get, what you want!" The lights fade slowly as the director, Mr Nigel Dobbing, shouts cut . . .

The conversation, at least, is a true record of what took place - always fun at our house!

I'm sorry for all those who have already financially committed to arrangements for what (at least to us idiots/enthusiasts) looked like a very good trip. Maybe Buxton, early Feb, early morning, another similar trip 3 weeks later . . . I hope that RTC try the itinerary again say in May or June. I'm fortunate, disappointed but not out of pocket. I've transferred to the Midday Scot; now, with a hard Brexit, will I need my passport and some euros?

 

The refundable hotel argument is a fair one Ben and, as you point out, an extra £10-£15 isn't going to break the bank. With regard to the travel insurance I think your point about including it as part of the ticket price is a good one, but whilst it would probably work well with your company (who thankfully cancel very few trips) I'm not certain other operators would find it affordable.

Personally I used to carry annual travel insurance as part of a packaged bank account and twice successfully claimed for cancelled railtours (one in the UK, the other overseas). Shortly after the second claim was paid I was notified that the cover was being withdrawn. I tried to insure in my own name but with my "record" I was either declined or offered entirely uneconomic premiums coupled with excess levels that were more than an average trip might cost. If operators such as Steam Dreams or RTC were to try and offer such a product I doubt they would last many trips before they became totally uninsurable.

Another factor which probably works in Vintage's favour is geography. Proportionally I would think far fewer of your prospective passengers need to worry about hotels. For Southerners heading North (or vice-versa) accommodation costs are more of a factor, as are connecting rail-fares where advance booking is essential to avoid on-the-day mega-expensive tickets from Virgin and it's ilk.

 

Good point Ben, I too had my fingers burnt with a previous railtour cancellation, since that time I have exclusively used 'Booking.com', as they offer free cancellation up to the day before in most cases, check their prices out Chaps and chapesses, if you need convincing.
As regards Travel insurance, I doubt RTC would last long on the 'approved' list, as they would be struck, in no time at all as Serial offenders !

 

You make a good point. However insurance is based on risk. And in recent times the risk has been high so premiums would soar. Last year was not a vintage year for tours (no pun intended) with a reduced capacity of high powered locomotives. It's looking better this year, but the risk is still there. Half my tours last year didn't happen. I learned a long time ago to book cancellable rooms. I would wager the extra costs equate to an insurance premium.

 

It's even better than insurance, because it costs you nothing at all if the trip is cancelled, for whatever reason, unless that's at very short notice.

It's also ideal for the times when you haven't yet decided for sure whether to do a certain trip, but you will need overnight accommodation if you do, and you don't want to risk all the hotel/guesthouse/B&B rooms being full or only the most expensive ones being left. I often do this, sometimes keeping the booking and sometimes cancelling in the period when that can be done without penalty.

 

I thank you all for your constructive responses. I agree that the issue of travel insurance is a challenging one; we have only investigated and offered insurance once for our 3 day tour to Scotland several years ago; it was only £6 per passenger, but only covered passengers for cancellation; it certainly didn't cover for change of traction.

I suspect that each and every tour that is cancelled / modified is a unique case. I know that we at VT are very careful about cancelling tours as it costs us quite a lot of money to do so. We are invested financially in the tour as soon as we plan and publish it. It costs us money to process every booking and it costs us yet more money to refund them.

I fear there is not an instant nor simple solution to this lengthy problem.

Kindest Regards and Happy Travels.

Ben - VT

 

With tours now being primarily marketed towards the (wealthy end of the) general public, rather than enthusiasts, I wonder how many of these "non-enthusiasts" travel great distances to their joining station, or if the majority wait for a tour that picks up / sets down at a station reasonably local to them?

While the current policies regarding cancellation / late notification of timings are rather tough on the dedicated band of enthusiasts who are prepared to travel miles, book hotels, etc., perhaps the majority of participants being local to their joining station is why we haven't seen a collapse of the market due to loss of confidence? I think most people would be a lot less put out if the tour was cancelled, but they weren't out of pocket; it just meant they had to find something else to do on that particular day. I have no idea whether the majority do book hotels and advance travel from / to their joining station, but it's possible that they don't. If they don't, we may not see a great incentive for the tour operators to change their policy and the current procedures might not be as big a nail in the coffin as they appear to be from the perspective of those who do travel long distances and book hotels.

 

In many respects, the last minute changes to routes or indeed cancellations due to say gauging should not be at the last minute.

I travel quite a bit by train both distance and suffer the Northern Heritage Rail Services too. NR give clearance to TOCs a minimum of 12 weeks so that they can plan to run their normal services. It is often impossible to book advance tickets before that 12 week period. So there is an industry cut off point that says the track is open and trains can run. Of course there are unplanned urgent repairs that can cause last minute engineering work to occur. But in the main, 12 weeks looks the norm. To me that means that a tour operator should have some surety of the tour and timings quite a way out. The only issue then is the loco availability.

 

I wish we were told 12 weeks in advance! In recent months it is more like days. If you read last months Steam Railway, you will find that NetRail have appointed a person to look into the issues and why late notifications are given to the TOCs and thence promoters.

Please do not assume this is limited to steam. Rail Ops Group cancelled their 30th December charter on 23rd December due to Class 442 Units (Mk3 based vehicles) failing gauging on the Eastern Region out of Kings Cross.

 

Fair point Ben. It can be a lottery here in the heart of the Northern Heritage Rail network as they find new problems whilst "upgrading" the Manchester to Blackpool service...

 

Some parts of the Network are a comedy loading gauge that needs looking at anyway regardless of tours, Isn't there a Tunnel near Barnsley where barely anything other than Units and Class 20's can pass currently ?, That's ridiculous and must cause the providers of RHTT and Infrastructure trains no end of issues, I think DRS have had to retain a few 20's purely because of it.

Also fair play to Ben for acknowledging the issue and asking for ideas, excellent promoting.

 

Hemmingfield tunnel between Elsecar and Wombwell. It must have been sorted as the Tin Bath tours run through it

 

The other problem facing the remaining tour is that 'The Tin Bath' is only two weeks after it, and it covers a fair chunk of the same route. Whilst Standard and First have both got below 60 places left, dining still has 98 seats left to fill. I won't be surprised if 76084 only sees one trip in the north, and nowhere near its original stamping ground.

 

With a long stop over at Buxton, dining is not the attraction it could be. Lots of nice places to eat during the time the tour is there making a full dining service largely redundant. We have taken a view on tours based on the destination and timings. If we are staying at the destination for a significant time covering lunch then we will eat a good meal there and take First Class. Otherwise we use Premier. Maybe at least one dining car will be dropped (and keep the load down into the bargain).

 

Just had the email offering me seats at £10 off, often a sign of poor loading?
No good to us, the Missus and me are off up a certain mountain system in the former East Germany looking for steam that weekend.