Premium Fare Events

After the phenomenal success of the Flying Scotsman events on the Severn Valley and North Yorkshire Moors Railways, the KWVR is now getting in on the act. Looking at their web site, it appears that the trains are filling rapidly, and two more running days have been added. This is despite a premium fare of £20.

The NYMR is now trying its luck with Royal Scot. A similar format, pre-booking only and a premium fare of £30. In addition they are running Royal Scot Support trains in the other paths at a fare of £24.

Is this just a passing phase, or is this the future for our preserved railways? And should we be happy, sad or indifferent?

My initial thoughts are that these "premium" events will attract an affluent audience that probably not otherwise have visited a preserved railway. And provided the trains can be filled, allowing the railways concerned to make a healthy profit, it must be a good thing. Just like Santa, Halloween and other themed events, I probably won't attend but I'm happy that they are helping our preserved lines to make money.

It's not the £20 to £30 fares that put me off. I'm happy to pay that amount for a decent steam gala. It's more the thought of being constrained to a pre-booked round trip, without the opportunity to break the journey at wayside stations - although to be fair, the KWVR offering allows passengers unlimited use of the other train that day.

So long as these events don't replace the traditional gala then I think it's great that the railways have found a new income stream.

 

It's already happened Ralph http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/14352375.Trainspotters_warned_to_stand_back_after_man_fell_on_track/

 

The SVR sold all 7000 Premium Price Tickets in a single day, with the website crashing, phone lines being jammed from midnight (though they did not open until 9) and long queues at the office, so clearly premium prices are not a deterrent.

 

If these events bring in much needed revenue in the low season then I cannot see a problem. The number of engines suitable for these premium running days are limited anyway.

 

The NYMR's "Royal Scot" event was well on the way to being sold out last time I heard, so clearly there is a market. I think that in the NYMR's case there is quite an effort to sell the event to corporate bodies and if that is the case it is quite a savvy move as the booking history should then give them a database of companies to approach for sponsorship in the future.

The other interesting point to note is that the NYMR is treating these as unbudgeted income, so any profit made is kept separate and used to reduce the operating overdraft. As that goes down it frees up money for opportunistic purchases should they arise. As they are being staged outside the main operating season there is no impact on other passengers, so I would expect them to take place every year if a suitable locomotive can be sourced - there's plenty of candidate locos yet - how about an A2, a King, a Duchess or a Princess for example, not to mention 60007 on its return?

 

Wouldn't see a problem in any season in what is an extremely marginal industry! Good luck to the NYMR, if as stated above its being done to reduce the overdraft.

 

Quite agree, and if the punters are happy with the formula that's great. My preference is for a more leisurely visit, doing a bit of station hopping, and sampling the different catering outlets. On board the train it doesn't matter that much what the motive power is, so Flying Scotsman is much the same as a Jinty from a passenger's perspective.

Sounds like there are plenty of takers for these trains though, and it's great news that some of our railways are making a good profit from them.

 

I think the point about running them in the low season is that the best time to run any special event is when normal takings would be otherwise low - not much financial advantage running packed out special trains at a time when your normal trains would be packed anyway.

As for charging premium fares for Royal Scot: I'd be very interested to see how it goes. Flying Scotsman seems to be a special case of a loco that has enough "wow" factor with the general public to justify such an event: personally I'd be surprised if any other currently operational loco has the same level of fame and cachet with non-enthusiasts, but I'd like to be proved wrong. Maybe it comes down to good marketing.

Tom

 

I don't think the NYMR is charging the same fares as for Flying Scotsman or expecting such a manic level of interest, but the event is closing in on being sold out, at a time when trains would not normally be running and the management are expecting to record a six figure profit on the event, so I would imagine there will be others in the coming years. Blue Peter seems an obvious candidate.

 

Flying Scotsman is the most famous locomotive on the planet, so of course that's a no brainer.
Royal Scot at lower prices... OK, seems like that's working.
After that... Mallard? (Muchos beanos would needing spending first, of course)
Blue Peter (nab the TV audience)?

But then I think the well will run dry fairly quickly. Unless there are enough of us out here who remember the Flockton Flyer to shell out for a premium-priced trip behind a pannier tank

 

I think there will be an ongoing programme - for example there's scope for another Flying Scotsman visit, especially if it goes into apple green at some point and can be paired with the teak train. And then there's he possibility of a King, and after that the P2 (which David Elliott assured me would go around any corner the A1 could negotiate). On top of that there are opportunities to ring the changes by making the events at least in part premium-heavier by including dining vehicles. In 3-4 years three additional dining cars (Met Camm Pullman Garnet, Victorian ECJS 189 and Edwardian NER 945 should be available to add to the existing Pullman set. Think of it as an affordable alternative to the Northern Belle, for example.

 

I think it's one of the ways the world is going at the moment. But really it's not new - the FR and TR have charged extra for their Victorian trains for donkeys' years, on the basis that there's a market for haulage by and with the original stock.

If anything it's probably something which the larger lines have been surprisingly slow to get behind. I'd pay extra to travel behind a red LMS engine in the SVR's LMS set, for example. Or something in apple green on the teaks. Or even these days, given they don't get used as regularly as they used to, the GWR sets, if it can be guaranteed they'll be hauled by a GWR locomotive in GWR livery.

I'll also happily turn up and ride behind whatever's rostered, in whatever it's hauling*, so I don't see one sort of train cannibalising the other.

*which is just as well, given how much I love banging up and down the foot of the Ridgeway in a Mk1 behind whatever Chinnor's hired in!

 

I would happily a modest premium to ride in a vintage train, and I'm surprised that some lines (e.g. KWVR, Welshpool) don't charge extra for such a good product. I've also been happy to pay small supplements for the observation cars on the Torbay line and Battlefield line.

I'm not really bothered what's pulling the train. Once inside it doesn't make that much difference. But there is a big difference between travelling in a well restored pre-nationalisation coach and a tired Mark One.

 

Perhaps someone ought to get Stepney restored and do something similar. Two coaches max, mind.

 

Am I not right in saying that the Bluebell has run premium fare trains off season? In October 2009 I travelled on an "Autumn Tints" special from Sheffield Park to Kingscote and return. The train comprised Fenchurch and the LNWR saloon, and the fare, if I remember correctly, was £25.i considered the trip worth every penny.
Ian

 

We do still run "Bluebell Specials" in the spring and "Autumn Tints" in the autumn. I think in the context of this thread, I'd suggest that they are "pre-booked" rather than necessarily "premium" (though I haven't checked the fares recently ...) In that sense, they are a bit like Santa Specials, or indeed, dining trains. A big advantage for us is that they provide a way of extending the daily running season at either end of the year, without it being massively costly (small loco and one or two coaches).

What we haven't done, until the upcoming visit of Flying Scotsman, is run a kind of "mega event" with celebrity loco, large train, pre-booked, long duration etc. That does feel like it is something new, not only for the Bluebell, but for preservation as a whole. We have in the past had visiting engines for galas and maybe put on an exclusive Golden Arrow dining service behind the visitor on one evening over a weekend, but not had a week of solid running of pre-booked trains behind a specific loco.

Tom

 

I'm not convinced it works if the whole train is a supplement. We run 1st /3rd fares as a normal thing, and also - when it is running - charge a £1 supplement over 3rd class (free for first class ticket holders) to ride in the LNWR Obo. But any visitor has the option of riding in the other carriages in the train (which may well be vintage in any case) for the price they paid to enter. I don't think it is great customer experience if someone happens to turn up wanting to catch a train, pays their fare and is then told "you have to pay an extra £x to ride this train - or else wait an hour until the next one". Fair enough if it is one carriage in a consist that attracts a premium, but not if there are whole trains on the public timetable that can't be ridden on without supplement.

Tom

 

Tom - I agree, in the scenario you've given, i.e. when a vintage train is substituting for a normal advertised service. On the KWVR and the Welshpool (to give a couple of examples) the vintage trains are run as an extra train when there would normally be just one running. The Embsay line does the same, but they DO charge a supplement (about £2 I think).

The Bluebell is slightly different from most other railways, in that a much higher proportion of their everyday stock is of a certain vintage, so there is probably less of a novelty to a vintage train. Having said that, on both my visits to the Bluebell I had to travel in Mark Ones, which was a slight disappointment.

What about gala fares? There must be occasions when Joe Public turns up with his family for a quiet ride only to be told that he has to pay for a gala day rover. I suppose most punters these days check the web site before visiting.