P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

Nowhere near like the Princess Coronation class. It is eight coupled with a vastly superior exhaust system. You know well enough the improvements that can be gained by attention to this aspect of locomotive design - approximately 500hp for an A3, which is only one example among many. And before some people choose to point to the cylinder volume aspect I would like to direct attention to the Merchant Navy class, particularly Aberdeen Commonwealth.

 

Well well,someone else extolling the virtues of the Mikado. Pity BR didn't try out a few instead of even more Pacific's. But after a period of demonstration of 2007's prowess perhaps its recomended loading will be different. And as for exhaust systems they tend not to given much consideration. Proportion as much as system is important here, far as I know the new engines are using the one size fits all LNER double kylchap which gives good results. Its acknowledged that the SR one size fits all Lemaitre benefits the WC/BB more than it does the MN (so room for improvement) but by accident or design the less sophisticated Princess coronation exhaust must be pretty well proportioned as it is capable of prodigious ( by British standards in relation to its grate area) steam raising.
Having said that I still think 2007 will stroll up Shap with 12 on more consistently than anything else we have got or ever likely to have.

 

The limitations on both MNs and Duchesses in normal service was also down to the ability of one fireman to shovel coal, not a problem today with at least four people on the footplate. When the building of the P2 was first announced I think there was some talk about taking it to France for load trials, that would be interesting to see.

 

The Norman's had steam locos? William the Conqueror kept that a bit quiet.

 

must have hit the caps button by mistake the iPad did the rest, now corrected

 

Indeed they did, and there is documentary evidence from the time that if you leant your head out of the window, you risked getting something nasty in your eye ...



Tom

 

Sitting in bed reading my book Les Vapeurs En Couleurs 1950 - 1975 last night, I noticed the French were as keen on Mikados as they were on Pacifics. Also a few enormous 4-8-4 tanks... So France would be a nice place to take 2007 for trials

 

The Kylchap system as applied to the P2 was never fully optimised to the design. Hard working with longer cut-offs produced problematic vacuum levels so much so that an exhaust steam by-pass was fitted to 2004. No doubt the builders of 2007 are aware of these issues and some attention will be given to this area once the performance of the new cylinder and valve design is deemed to be satisfactory.

I am not over convinced by the fireman argument. Marty could shovel 4 tons an hour but he was exceptional - back in the day firemen were selected with an eye on physical suitability and were trained to keep the pressure up to the mark. When 2001 was on trials in France the good natives expressed concern and some surprise at the size of the shovel in use. They felt that it would cause problems in firing to the required rate but the LNE man maintained that he had no difficulty. However that was then and today is far removed. It is true that crews had to work with engines that were frequently far removed from the best that could be found and when the condition of the machine in hand is taken into consideration some minor miracles were frequently achieved.

Fifty square feet is considered the grate area limit for hand firing. Today firing a steam locomotive on the mainline is not quite the job that it used to be. Though the engines are frequently in better condition the job does not take up all your working hours. Some help in easing the workload could be welcome. Or maybe not. It depends on the condition of the individual.

 

I though that with mainline steam nowadays if you want an extra coach you just put a bigger diesel on the back.

 

And no-one would have noticed had it not been for the infamous "Solway Singleton" railtour when GNR No 1 passed Shap summit with thirteen on still doing 67mph at the top ...

Tom

 

I am not sure about that. Many of the top link drivers I remember were of the whippet variety and they must have come up through the ranks.

 

If we see a diesel on the back it will be taking a failed one back to Kingmoor to save a path.

 

I think it is a myth that you need to be built like a prop forward to be a good fireman. You need stamina, certainly, though the physique of a typical marathon runner should be enough to show that stamina and brawn are not necessarily related. Beyond that, a single shovelful of coal is not heavy: the skill is how it is placed, not the strength in lifting big weights. The stamina is in doing that action reliably several times per minute, for hours on end, against a high background radiant heat while also maintaining lucidity of thought.

Tom

 

And on a run down Black 5 staying on your feet

 

The Czech's were/are pretty keen on big 4-8-2 machines...lovely loco's

https://johnleyland.smugmug.com/CD/Czech-Steam/i-WGJPKXB

 

e.g. 'Piccolo' Pete Johnson.

Dave

 

I think an excuse to watch the Elizabethan is in order... Fireman Mungo dosn't look a prop from the front row of the pack!

 

Fixed

 

Erm, he's a Scotsman.

 

Exactly, that's why he dosn't look like a prop from England's front row, (it had been a long day and several pints of Proper Job and Crop Circle had been consumed those are my excuses anyhow)