North Norfolk Railway General Discussion

Have always wondered why, out of all the industrial tanks that formed the back bone of the NNR motive power in the 70s, 80s and 90s, Ring Haw was retained rather than sold like the others. Was it more reliable or powerful than the other tank engines?

 

Most of the industrial tanks weren't owned by the NNR, I believe only Ring Haw and the two J94 types were but I'm happy to be corrected on that.
Ring Haw operated on the line for something like 23 years in a row and kept the service going through some very difficult times and is loved by almost all that have the chance to be on the footpath.

Plus it's a cracking bit of kit which will do all that is asked ok it.
Now where to put the techie bits so it can work to Cromer? (I'm not being serious but it would certainly be different).

 

Nat's correct, Ring Haw is a cracking little loco that pleasantly surprises crews wherever it visits. In contrast the 'J94s' were never as popular with crews and certainly not as reliable needing much more tlc to keep them operational.

 

Ring Haw and Wissington (also there still) have pucker East Anglian pedigrees too, whereas I'm not sure Harlaxton, John d Hammer, Pony, Edmundsons etc did

 

I never knew that most of the industrials on the line weren't owned by the NNR. Was Harlaxton owned by the M&GN society, as it had the M&GN livery?

Certainly from my childhood memories of visiting the line in the 80s, it always seemed to be Ring Haw, in black livery, at the front of the train.

I guess Ring Haw is to the NNR what Stepney is to the Bluebell.

 

Was birchenwood no4 a resident of the nnr at one point? Given the mileage sister loco Princess has done at haverthwaite over the last 40 plus years one would assume it could have done a similar job for the nnr?

 

Reading this, it was there but in pieces http://www.ribblesteam.org.uk/exhibits/steam/12-bagnall-2680-1942-birchenwood-no-4

 

It's my perception that industrial and main line don't mix well. A railway is either predominantly a main line one or an industrial one in its motive power, even though the larger industrial locos can stand their ground. There are exceptions, as ever, but it holds true for most heritage railways.

 

That's an interesting comment - do you think it's a fundamental technical / operational reason, or more to do with the image any given railway wishes to portray?

One "mixed" railway I can think of is the IoWSR - the stock list includes (ignoring which are serviceable at the moment and which aren't) two LBSCR Terriers; an LBSCR E1; an LSWR O2 and two Ivatt tanks on the mainline side (plus an Ivatt tender engine that is too large to run and will I think always be loaned out); and on the industrial side three Austerities; a Hawthorn Leslie 0-4-0T and an Andrew Barclay 0-6-0T. Historically I think the Austerities have been used to reduce mileage on the Victorian locos; it's quite likely that the Ivatts will increasingly fulfil that role and the locomotive provision will increasingly match the "mainline" image of the rest of the railway.

Tom

 

Would it be fair to say that the NNR began to move away from industrial motive power around 2002, with the B12 and J15 being in steam together for the first time? I realise the J15 was in service in the 80s, the B12 returned in the mid 90s, and there were vists by other BR engines, but it seemed to be the 'Steam Dream' reunion of the B12 and J15 that lead to a more concentrated effort to become a mainline engine railway with the WD, N7 and 92 Squadron entering service on the line.

 

Perhaps many of the industrial locomotives mentioned are no longer considered powerful enough or are just not suitable for the NNR, comment has already been made that even the J15 is not really up to hauling five coaches about day after day in the high season. That said, Lowestoft J15s including the example on the NNR, were often seen on the nine coach Holiday Camps Express when a "Claud" or a Lowestoft J17 was not available. I have seen a J15 stall more that once on the morning goods to Yarmouth, with the train being divided to get up to Lowestoft North from Central, but never on the HCE, they just struggled a bit and set fire to the fields! It was always a nice experience when the J15 or J17 came off and was replaced at Lowestoft by a Stratford Britannia, B1, or Lowestoft K3 or B17 for the fast run to London Liverpool Street.

 

I guess in BR days there wasn't any thought given to long term preservation when allocating an elderly J15 to a nine coach train.

Wish a K3 had survived in to preservation, they looked like powerful engines for their size.

 

It's difficult to give an answer to this. If you look at the Worth Valley, they started off with a significant number of industrial locos; two MSC tanks, three Uglies and a couple of Austerities to name but a few. These have effectively all gone, despite the fact that they successfully operated the Railways services in the earlier days. The only one left operational is Nunlow and that is not owned by the Railway. You can't really argue that there wasn't any BR power available as they were an early society, started up before the end of steam. They are what I would term a 'main line loco' railway. Then, look at the Embsay & Bolton Abbey Railway, not too far away. Of similar size and also an early entry into the world of preserved railways. They have steadfastly relied on industrial locos for their bread and butter fleet, with only the occasional main line visitor. With later arrivals on the scene, some have started with industrial locos and then moved on to Main line, whilst others have stayed with their original motive power. It could well be down to personalities. Many of those involved with the KWVR are ex BR whereas the early stalwarts of the EBAR were very much into industrial steam.

Ring Haw does the job quite adequately and it is only a 16" loco. There are plenty of industrial locos out there that will give a main line loco a good run for the money at 25 mph and the NNR isn't exactly a taxing line. They may be less well shod in terms of bearings, etc, but overhaul costs of an industrial are generally much less than a main line loco.

Me? I like 'em all. Anything's preferable to a diesel!

 

Certainly John D. Hammer was a most uncomfortable industrial to travel behind on the NNR when it was being worked hard with a uncomfortable oscillating motion which Harlaxton also suffered from, No. 40 (NCB passenger tank) was OK and always looked good in the dark with it's large headlamp alight, Pony was rather small to work passenger trains but looked fine on the demo. goods, and the now famous television star Colwyn was OK (saw it again recently at Weybourne on BBC 2). Birchenwood never seemed to be used much if at all. Bearings can be a problem on industrials including the War Department 0-6-0s, but if they are relatively cheap to replace as has been stated, that's OK! Ring Haw has proved to be a very capable locomotive but we are told that the holiday makers and tourists like big impressive engines such as Black Prince, 8572 and no doubt 90775 and these folk do help to keep the NNR in business, which is the name of the game. You only have to stand on Sheringham platform in August to witness the draw factor that Black Prince has, what a superb advert in a busy town centre location! Well done to NNR on New Years Day with all trains nicely full and a superbly polished 8572 helping to cheer people up on such a miserable wet day (and the steam heating and the mince pies were very nice).

 

My main interest has always been ex-BR steam. As a child when I visited the NNR I always wondered why there were no 'big' engines there, of course I had no idea about the struggle the line had in those early days and all the hard work it took just to keep the line running. I think Ring Haw, as well as being a useful part of the fleet, is also an important part of the railway's history in preservation, a reminder of those earlier days when the line was on less firm footing.

Also, as impressive as Black Prince and 90775 are, the main attractions for me at the NNR will always be the B12 and Y14.

 

Carriage & Wagon updates:

C&W News - February Part 4

C&W News - March Part 1

 

According to NNR Facebook page, 8F 48624 will be visiting for April gala.

 

The Carriage & Wagon Blog this week celebrates the finale of the Suburban 4 Project: the conclusion of the fourth and final Suburban coach for the NNR:

C&W News: Completion of E43041

 

Lots of good work! and a class 104 dome in the last picture?

 

Wonderful! So will this year will, there be a Quads and Subs week?!