6201, her new lease of life.

Or alternatively some self appointed experts told them "Pointless raising money in the traditional way, crowd funding is the way to go", so they went with it and its turned out to be almost but not completely worthless.

 

I'm not really sure what "crowdfunding" means in this context, beyond "raise donations from lots of people". Potentially using a website to do so can help bring your project in front of more people and help with publicity; and may also decrease the barrier to donation (i.e. for many people it will easier to donate online than find a chequebook, write cheque, find an envelope, find a stamp etc.). But when all is said and done, you are trying to motivate people to make what is basically an altruistic donation: not too different from many other railway preservation projects. Some societies and groups are better at it than others.

Tom

 

Just now they seem to be singularly unsuccessful at motivating potential donors. I can't see that changing unless and until they provide both a clear explanation of how they have come to where they are now and some convincing reasons for people to donate to this particular locomotive.

 

They need to demonsrate new funds will be spent prudently.

 

Only two, 1946 livery black and BR blue

 

Wouldn't one of those be something a bit different from red? I'd certainly chuck a few quid in to see a black or blue Lizzie

 

Matching BR Crimson like 46203....

 

I suspect a better way to encourage funds is rather than change the livery, actually explain why it needs a retube just a year after a heavy general overhaul?

 

I'd love to see Maggie Rose back in action, what a machine that was! Now I'd throw a few quid in that machines direction.

 

Never mind the livery speculation, the answer to bring in money and volunteers is that some of the "stuck in past" directors should walk away, its a pity that the ones with motivation have already quit did so out of years of frustration

 

Absolutely so. A band I am into (whose biggest 'hit' was a number 52 single in in 1984, which I guess makes them somewhat obscure) have just raised over £23k in a week (so far) towards buying all of the gear to go back out on tour for the first time in over 20 years. Incentives ranging from an album download or CD through to a full-on fly-you-round-the-world-to-a-gig-and-VIP-treatment package. Interestingly the latter sold out in no time. There are people out there with serious money to spend on things they like, if you only make it worth their while.

 

Is this an entirely comparable example? The fund raising you are referring seems to be in connection with what I assume is intended to be a profit-making venture by said group (but please correct me if I am wrong in this assumption). While railway enthusiasts seem to be very undemanding in terms of getting something tangible in return for a donation, and there are all sorts of (often IMHO not very attractive) examples out there of structures for owning / funding locos, which find willing donors, I suspect that most would jib at a contribution if they knew someone was making money out of it. In truth, there is very little tangible benefit that a group like the 6201 Company can offer: they can't offer shares (which would in any event give rise to another set of issues) so there is no particular incentive to give more than the next person, I suspect rather low-brow prints and tee shirts are a bit of a turn-off for the better-heeled, and as the 6201 Company doesn't have its own premises, free access to see the loco may not be within their gift, nor seats on 6201-hauled trains, as they will be promoted by someone else. So you are back to trying to monetise people's altruistic feelings.

Which does seem to work with the right project - I see the Brighton Belle project raised over £1.5m (including gift aid) in 2015 and they are offering nothing more tangible than a trip on the first public run (for a cool £6,000). The 5Bel project probably appeals to more than the hard-core enthusiasts though, as there is a certain amount of real glamour about it, with Pullmans and art deco (Pullman marquetry, seats and lamps seem to be consistently expensive at auction), but perhaps having a priest as your finance director helps (providing he is not expected to come down handsomely in the plate himself)? I think that is the way I would go with selling 6201, not sticking silly bling on the side of it, or leading with rather nerdy details about obscure records, but emphasising its place in the "golden age of travel" in the 1930s to break out of the narrow enthusiast market. The souvenir print could then be a 1930s style travel poster rather than something which looks like the picture used for a child's jigsaw puzzle. But this requires a rather different pitch than an underwhelming "crowdfunding appeal" knocked up in 10 minutes, or the usual enthusiast-focused website. Having a heavy hitter or two on the board probably helps too. I am not convinced about the appeal of the loco in green in terms of hard cash (although that would be my preferred colour). I think red engines appeal to sprogs more than green/black, and possibly adults too, so it should be a dream for merchandising compared with trying to sell a Black Five or a Castle.

 

Red locomotives are definitely more memorable to little people. My daughter 3 1/4 can spot princess Elizabeth in any picture, compared to any black 5 or gwr locomotive

 

I'd agree with a lot of the above, and I would also add that if you are a charity aiming to recover Gift Aid on donations, it places even further limits on how much you can give back to a donor in exchange for donations - beyond a warm fuzzy glow. The point about donating to a charity is that the Gift Aid is predicated on the fact that it is a genuine donation, not a payment in exchange for some kind of service. So anything returned can only be of token value. As an example, if the receiving body was charitable, you could offer a "sponsor a component" scheme in which you got back a nice certificate in exchange, and the receiving body could reclaim Gift Aid on your donation. But if you gave a donation and, for example, were thereby guaranteed a trip on the first train, or a day on the footplate as an inducement, that would look suspiciously like payment for a service since the inducement would have a substantial and readily ascertained value. Obviously that doesn't apply if you aren't going to reclaim Gift Aid, but then you lose a chunk of possible income.

Tom

 

Mine too (2 1/2) - I nearly got away with giving her the initials LMS but my wife intervened when she noticed what I was up to....

 

Yes I believe that is the plan, but the funders won't be getting their money back as such. £100 gets you a souvenir book, for example.

I was going to say that they could surely come up with something in conjunction with their host railway, like footplate experiences or cab rides or dining train tickets - other loco groups have done similar things with their appeals in the past. But then I realised I had no idea where 6201 lives and looked it up; Tyseley, which is entirely appropriate for a main line loco but less so if you want to start giving cab rides out to the public. Well, I certainly have nothing against Tyseley but if the owners of 6201 can't afford to get their loco back on the main line any time soon then maybe they should sign up with a main line connected heritage line for a few seasons. I'm sure there are a few that would be suitable.

 

6201 no longer lives at Tyseley. I believe the Society has also looked at their volunteers and realised they don't have the required skills to operate the Locomotive either. So they have given the operation over to the West shed. So 6201 now do the sales team and owning of the loco only I think. Well that's what was in the Lizzie newsletter anyway

 

Didn't one owning group run out of money and sell their loco to LSL?

 

6024 lost a legal battle with their chief engineer. Probably best leave that to lie though.

 

6100 transferred from one charitable trust to a new one created in its name? The latter is associated with LSL for operational purposes one imagines.