35018 British India Line

Indeed, it was just the natural process of a railway with an antiquated and insufficient motive power selection modernising to meet a desperate need (unfortunately in this case the need arose during wartime), much as the LMS did in the 1930's under Stanier. However it also somewhat counters an oft made argument made on here regarding the GWR and the lack of anything innovative post 1930. The GWR motive power department was based upon the plans prior to 1910 undertaken by Churchward and what appeared subsequent to that followed the general themes, being minor updates as required to meet increasing demand, nothing more than that as nothing more was really needed and one should remember that these companies were there to provide a return for the shareholders and not to excite subsequent generations of budding engineers.

I have often pondered whether Bulleid was the natural successor to Brunel in a way, great engineer with an ego to match, fantastically talented at spending other peoples money with ideas that would have possibly worked to perfection if the materials and manufacturing techniques had been available at those dates.

 

in terms of wartime use, yes they would. Speeds were limited strictly at that time and the capacity of an MN could not be fully utilised. They also would have been much cheaper and quicker to build at a time when materials capacity and labour were in short supply

 

You obviously didn't see the weight of some wartime trains then and not just on the SR.

 

I'd say not. A successor to Brunel should be more like Raven. Forward thinking that was years ahead of his time. Could see trends and opportunities that came with technology and development. While Brunel was a character and wanting to spend money, the traits should evolve with technology and development. Thus, with such improvements comes efficiency of the design process as well as the design's performance itself.

Raven was a very good organiser, he was efficient and productive. His designs incorporated the best technology of the time and were proven to have worked, such as Electrification and the start of suburban electrical unit working. While some steam engines could have needed reform, or were built at a time that was an evolution of a previous design - those that were the longest enduring engines in traffic, such as Q6, Q7 were the ones that demonstrated a fantastic attention to detail and efficiency with that looks like a simplistic design.

However, all that detracts from the Merchant Navy that is about to be released. I have to admit, this is one that I'm looking forward to seeing in traffic and to be honest, I'm very glad that it is not being done in BR Green, as this will become a new chapter in the engines operation, and its fitting that a modern take on its appearance allows it to shake off the confines of legacy and run on the network today looking forwards to what it will do and not backwards to what is has done.

 

Your forget to mention that to say anything positive about WCRC specifically breaks Forum Rule 225, as praising them is just not allowed.

 

Considering what the Southern should or shouldn't have built during the war, it's probably worth considering where the strengths of its (relatively small) fleet at the time lay. Covering the modern, 2-cylinder, simple to maintain 4-6-0 and 2-6-0, you get:

74 N15/King Arthurs
45 S15
26 H15
80 N class
50 U class

Throw in 27 three-cylinder Moguls and 17 Brighton K class and that's not a bad general purpose fleet, and unlike some other railways this had nearly all been in place by about 1931 (ten S15's came in 1936).

In fact, they had so many of these, relative to duties, that some of the N15's were borrowed by the LNER. What they lacked was many locos of seriously high power, where the LNER got good use out of the V2's and Pacifics on heavy wartime loads (speed goes down, load goes up, many horses still needed). Sixteen Lord Nelsons were never really enough to begin with and with their four cylinders and sets of valve gear they were a preparation nightmare during the war. By contrast, the GWR couldn't shake a stick without hitting a Castle, the LNER had Pacifics coming out of their ears and the LMS were still building streamliners.

Remember also that Bulleid wanted to build a 2-8-2, but the Civil Engineer wasn't having it. So, look at the concept: fill the gap at the high-power end of the fleet, reduce maintenance and servicing time. Is this a bad concept?

As is usually the case with Bulleid, I can disagree with parts of the execution, but I can understand what he was trying to do.

 

not a bad concept, but the MN hardly fitted it. Not the most efficient way to meet requirements.,

 

I can see your point, Both iffy on the loco designing front *runs for cover*.

 

I'm not sure exactly how old you are Ralph but you may have heard your parents refer to the wartime expression "You only had to worry about a bomb if it had your name on it".

My Great-Grandfather was a railwayman through both world wars & his favourite expression was "Don't share a compartment with Mr & Mrs Doodlebug"

 

Given that it seems that 35018 is going into black - if allowed to become suitably "weathered" would be a ver y highly accurate representation as to how some of the class looked during the last days of Southern steam - some of the colour pictures from around that period some of the loco's were in a deplorable external condition though some undoutably were specifically tarted up...

 

I wasn't born until 1984 Ralph, but even I have read the story of the V2 halfway into Gasworks tunnel on load 25.

 

When I first saw a MN at Waterloo in 1965 I thought they were black. It was only when I saw a clean one did I realise it was layers of grime!

 

Possibly so although that sounds more Churchwardian rather than Brunellian (if that makes sense).

 

As a kid growing up near Eastleigh I recall one of the lineside rumours circulating amongst spotters being that a BR Standard (5?) had come in filthy and when the volunteer cleaning gang hit it they found a black loco and green tender. It might have been the other way round, as memory gets fallible with age, but yes by the end of the steam era most locos we saw were truly filthy.

Would like to know if it was a true happening at any shed anywhere or just an apocryphal event.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Clan Line in Black 1967

 

Is there a "dislike" button?

Seeing pictures like that makes me wonder why people (modellers and otherwise) wish to recreate that forlorn period of our railway history.

Tom

 

To appreciate the good times sir, you have to go through the bad, much as we may not like it, it did happen!