West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Not for the first time, I think as railway enthusiasts we are being far too insular. There is a discussion about toilets: examples cited, in support of one position or another, include such diverse other attractions as Havenstreet, Sheffield Park, Grosmont, Pickering - stations on heritage railways all of them.

How about Beamish? Or Stonehenge? Or Longleat? They are large visitor attractions; they presumably attract considerable numbers of families with young children? How about at least taking ideas from how they manage the balance between heritage and visitor amenity - not least in the question of toilets! (And there is lots more we could all learn if we looked more widely than just at railway attractions).

At the weekend, I went (with 4 year old son and 7 year old daughter) to the Weald and Downland Open Air Museum at Singleton. For those unfamiliar, it is a large outdoor site, probably about 1/2 mile by 3/4 mile on the side of a hill, containing a number of reconstructed buildings. To walk all the way round is probably about three miles. There are, as far as I could tell, three toilets - one at the entrance, one in the main cluster of buildings about 1/4 mile away; one at the far end of the site. Obviously I can only talk for my own children, but it never felt like we were caught an uncomfortable distance away from facilities, even though conceivably in some parts of the site you are 10 mins or so walk away from the nearest toilet. So I am not convinced of the need for every platform to have toilets, if doing so sacrifices heritage appearance or compromises other bits of the scheme. The key issue would seem to me to ensure that the toilets that do exist are clean and of generous provision.

Tom

 

I love a good debate......

Robin

 

There's also one very amusing toilet perched on the edge of one of the houses, from my (very hazy) memory… I guess regular contemporary use is probably frowned on.


Simon

 

Several in fact, sufficient that they were sought out in every building to much amusement - but without provoking a hurried "daddy ...." and crossed legs...

Tom

 

It's a Victorian expression like "necessaria"!

PH

 

Fair comments, and well worth considering, but I suggest your specific example misses the mark on one important level. As you describe it (I was 11 last time I went to Singleton, so can't rely on memory), there are loos in the line of sight when arriving - my key concern. The Eden Project follows a similar approach, as does Beamish. And in a more difficult heritage context, so does my local NT property (Belton House).

From my experience with young children (they've now grown to the age where bladders are controlled!), this is a fundamentally different situation to that leaving a train, when the ability to get to the loo quickly, and in a crowd, is paramount. I do not suggest that it is essential to have loos on the platform - there may well be good reasons why they can't be - but that there are good reasons why having them where they are immediately visible when alighting is highly desirable.

 

I'll remind you of this should you be unwise enough to justify the use of corridor stock on a country branch line on account of there being ten minute journeys between stops! My point is that when a station has a major rebuild, it is time to sort out inconvenient conveniences.

PH

 

Ah but that's no help if you're not getting off the train at that stop! There are plenty of other reasons why corridor stock is used anyway, as we've discussed before.

 

Not sure how much credibility to give this but I have heard that from a design point of view for provision of toilets.
The max load on the system is to be able to cope with a 52 seater coach load of women.

 

Usually plenty of time at passing stations, provided the loos are well placed (i.e.on the platforms).

PH

 

*Groan* I walked into that one!

 

That's just a little TOO public for me.

Robin

 

In some cases the passing stop facilities may be suitable for some but not for all.
Goathland Gents on Down Ladies on Up.
With trains in platform the barrow crossing is not available so its a trek over the footbridge.

 

However, BL is not an intermediate station so this wouldn't be a problem.

I do partially agree with you though that in many cases the number of toilets on a train is not necessary, and is extra maintenance. As long as you've got corridor stock you only need a couple of sets in use at strategic points along the train.

 

Well, I am told the gents WC's on the King Orry (1946) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_King_Orry_(1946) opened straight into a corridor.....................

 

Do you think passengers even know how long, if at all, a train is due to stop at intermediate stations, and therefore whether or not they have the opportunity to visit the toilet mid-journey?

Quiz question, for those not directly involved in WSR operations: using the published timetables at http://www.west-somerset-railway.co.uk/timetables, how long do WSR trains stop, in the up and down directions, at each of the railway's three intermediate passing stations?

Tom

 

A cruel question - but well aimed. And to worries about "will the train go without me" (remember, those pesky children can be absolutely desperate, then completely unable to perform), need to be added those about keeping seats on a busy train, security of possessions, keeping the family together and all the other things that will make irregular travellers fret.

 

Which also ties in with how slavishly are you going to follow the timetable. If I know some folk are in the loo but wanting to get on the train I'm not going to give the clear signal, regardless of the time, because that's just not very friendly.

 

Would having toilets on the platform come with the added benefits of increasing retail sales? Currently if you have 'to go' when you get off the train at BL you walk off the platform and to the car park by passing the shop and cafe. Once at the car park most people are not going to bother walking back to the shop unless you specifically want to buy something. If there were toilet facilities on the platform then would pax be more inclined to browse and make impulse purchases on their way out? Secondary spend is extremely important for all visitor attractions and more should be done to try and 'empty pasangers wallets' Exit through the gift shop please.