West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Yorkshireman's post above contains a very good point about trespass. I have absolutely no intention of trespassing anywhere. That is why I like having a lineside pass and knowing that I am not trespassing. I generally walk the line between BL and Bicknoller happy in the knowledge that I am legal. I can not only photograph in safety but I can access these places without having to trespass. Yes, there are locations away from the lineside but, how can I tell that the landowner doesn't mind me being there? An OS map is helpful. So is contacting the landowners directly - I have several farmers' phone numbers on my phone.

Lineside photographers are generally sensible law abiding citizens. It is the trespassers who aren't. It is they that trample over private land and that is what farmers get annoyed about. If LSP's are withdrawn there will be an increase in this form of trespass.

There also seems to be a bit of confusion between "photographers" and "lineside pass holders". LSP holders are easily identifiable - their hi vis. will have WSR photographer number xxx on the back. If you see someone lineside with a hi vis. that does not have this, then he is trespassing, and not the legitimate LSP holder who will not only have paid for the pass but also invested time in attending a PTS course, similar to the NR course.

Yes, there are non lineside places to go to. However, some of the best from a few years ago are no longer usable due to lineside growth. Two which spring to mind are the shot of Churchlands curve and of Nethercott from the field. I am sure there are more locations which would benefit from some cutting back. That would mitigate the loss of lsp's a bit.

As far as Steve Edge's site is concerned I went to the photo section for the spring gala one year ago yesterday - 26/3/15 - the first 12 or so shots illustrate that lineside is best. Yes "interesting" away from the lineside does sometimes work (shot 1), but I would prefer the next 8 or so. So would a magazine editor (as he was for the picture to the left of this, lineside at Bicknoller).

 

I'm sure there's a place for both "near" and "far" (not sure Father Dougal would understand though).

However, using Colin's preferences from the webpage:
http://cgibin.wsr.org.uk/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?h=Spring+Steam+Gala+26+March+2015&t=ssg2015apix
as an example, it is interesting that the first seven images are taken from public footpaths. And thus no LSP is required.

The Latest Pictures page has some glorious examples of "far" taken by the "Master of Far".

Steve

 

Steve[/QUOTE]

Whenever I go to that stile there is no room for anyone else to stand there. Lee obviously got there early and stayed put. As you know, Steve, similar shots may be got from on top of the pillbox further up the line. The point of an lsp is that there is more room for these sort of photos along 20 miles of lineside, as opposed to turning up at the stile only to find there is no room.

 

Yes, Steve, 4 is good but I also like 2 and 10.

 

These people on here who are complaining about the cost of the LSP and how much it has gone up, please do you come and travel much on the railway including the gala's etc and spend money in the railways shop/cafe etc or not, as it is well known that some just come and take their photos and put nothing into the railway.

Also the cost of the LSP could keep going up as the insurance firms keep pushing up their premiums, because they think it is high risk and you just need to have one person to put in a claim on one railway and all the other railways will be charged more to do this.

 

Again you are confusing "photographers" with LSP holders. I am (or was and would like to be again) an LSP holder and also travel and spend money on trains etc. as do many other lsp holders. It is the "freeloaders" you need to address, not LSP holders who have made a contribution to the railway.

 

2 questions for Mr Allcars

a, I wonder what you would do if for reasons beyond the control of a particular railway, LSP were no longer available for that particular railway.

b, Beyond this, if for reasons beyond the control of the Heritage railway movement, individual LSP were no longer available on any railway in the UK, the only opportunity for lineside photography being by participation in an organised photo charter or an accompanied, organised lineside photo shoot party on a non- photo charter day

There is no compulsion for any railway to offer a LSP facility.

You mention NR PTS courses, it is quite possible that if NR requirements were to be the benchmark, a LSP holder should also hold an IWA qualification as well.

Jeff

 

a. My LSP had lapsed for the ASG so I bought a 4 day rover ticket, ate and drank on trains (apart from breakfast at my b and b). Total cost of weekend around £200.

b. I only hold (held) an LSP at the WSR. If I go to, say, the SVR ASG I again buy a 3 day rover etc. and walk to places like Rifle Range, Little Rock, Sterns etc.

I have also attended many photo charters, at the WSR, SVR DFR, SDR and others, again, not cheap.

Whatever hoops the WSR has asked us to jump through, we have.

Compulsion, no, but there are benefits to granting LSP's as I have already mentioned in earlier posts. Nobody has yet mentioned risk. I know of no injuries to LSP holders or even trespassers. LSP holders have undergone training so are a low risk for injuries.

I do not condone freeloading. Indeed, paying for a lineside pass gives me a welcome opportunity for me to further support the WSR.

Please do not tar LSP holders as trespassing freeloaders.

 

Just on the question of price, I did a very quick and non-exhaustive survey of information about LSPs from a variety of heritage railways - in summary, all taken from the individual railway's own websites:

Bluebell - £30 / 1 year
GCR - £45 new / £35 renewal / 1 year
GWSR - £75 non members / £50 members / 1 year
KWVR - £20, members only / 1 year
MHR - no public lineside pass.
NNR - £80 / 1 year (shorter duration also available)
SDR - £40 PTS course valid for three years, plus £20 per year permit. (Equivalent to about £34 per year if you keep it for three years)

Which suggests that the WSR is broadly comparable with other lines - some are cheaper, some more expensive. £50 certainly doesn't look anomalous. Also worth noting that many lines don't offer general lineside passes at all.

Tom

 

Having seen the beautiful field of rapeseed on some photos on your website today, Steve, can I turn the discussion around? Can I ask how many photos you see and put on your website are taken from private land, footpaths etc excluded? You often add the rider "taken with permission" for lineside photography at sensitive sites but how do you know the photos taken on private land are "with permission"?

 

Yes people who hold the LSP have to do the PTS course ever three years, (IIRC the NR PTS course was quoted as a 2 day course so must be a lot harder) and pass like all the volunteers who work in to operating areas of the railway (I hold one of these PTS cards as at times I am working in the Swindon Shed as a volunteer working on a coach).

Yes these people should be more safe than other people, but complaisant is the killer in all cases, so just getting a PTS doesn't make your more safe other than having a better idea of how to stay safe. No PTS holders have been killed on the railway (I haven't heard of any after I took my test in 2015) but there has been some near misses, but at least one trespasser has been killed when on the railway but I don't think this was a photographer.

 

Good question, Colin. It's not an exact science. A lot of it is based on trust - just as I have to trust that a lineside shot was taken by someone with a valid LSP. Over the years I also get to know the photographers who submit images for the website and can build a trust. Also, my experience of the landscape along the WSR helps me to work out the photographer's position although sometimes it is not easy and I would not for one minute suggest I get it right every time. The message that comes with submitted images may well include details of permissions. Anything truly "dodgy" is referred back. I should also mention that the folks who run the Railway have been very helpful with advice and suggestions. Over the years I can't recall a communication by letter or email from a neighbouring landowner about a picture taken from their land (although I've had several chats "over the fence" when "out on the line" about "bloody photographers"

Steve

 

With reference to the Flying Scotsman visit in September, are there any plans for refurbishment/repainting the coaching set in use?

 

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I see there are still discussions about Line Side Passes so to put your mind at rest here is the situation straight from the horses mouth (or should that be wolf's mouth);

For Release to the Public with regards to Line Side Passes



At the WSR Company Board meeting (25 March 2017 refers) the Board unanimously agreed the following action with regard to Line Side Passes:


· It is the Boards intention to withdraw the issue of Line Side Passes (LSPs) with effect from 1 January 2018 and not reissue any in the future.

· Renewals for the rest of this year, including Flying Scotsman visits will recommence immediately.

· The Railway will enter into discussion with the HRA to see what is the general advice is with regards to this matter.

· The Railway has agreed with its Insurers the following conditions to be introduced immediately:

o All renewing holders must have a PTS pass via an attended course.

o The online PTS course is discontinued.

o Any current pass holder not holding an attended PTS course pass must attend one before their LSP is useable.

o Any new requests will be offered a pass but must be aware that the PTS must be taken and passed and the LSP and PTS will expire on the 31 December 2017.

o The PLC will issue an updated map showing ‘NO GO’ areas with a written explanation.

o The pass holder will be required to complete and return a letter of acceptance for these changes for the LSP to become effective.




Issued 27 March 2017

WSR PLC,

There you go now you know as much as I do. Faol

 

I'm not really surprised. I can see most others following suit.

 

Thanks very much for this, Mr Davidge. Much as I regret the withdrawal of lsp's next year, at least we have 9 months to enjoy, including FS.

 

I'm not surprised that holders will now have to attend a proper PTS course, that seems eminently sensible. I'm surprised that having decided this, passes are still being withdrawn full stop from the beginning of next year! Still, their decision, and no personal loss to me!

 

Well you can count me out of that, Aswell as having a LSP
I've had in the past year alone,
7 Alline rovers
5 BL to CH Returns
1 Wiliton to Stogumber Return
And spent around £50 on various refreshments both on stations and on trains.

 

Thats a clean shot through the foot, Won't spend half as much time in the area, Real shame. Congratulations PLC,
Lost yourselfs few hundred pound of busisness a year, idiots

 

WSR LSP holders have had to attend and pass a "proper" PTS for some years now.

Steve