LSWR T3 563

Also the that great occupier of space the channel tunnel exhibit. After all it is the 'National' museum, seems to be a continual drain of quality exhibits. To many so called outstations, send them the dross and keep the premium stuff at York. rant over.

 

Agree generally with that post but very specifically with the last paragraph. The rationale around that will be awaited with interest I daresay. If there is not a credible plan already in place it could be a catestrophic error of judgement no matter how well intentioned the proposal may be.

 

I think it would be helpful for the NRM to be explicit about any assets they are considering deaccessioning. The items are public assets so the views of the public should be considered in the process. This would reduce the accusations of any process being opaque.

Going forward may it be worth considering an extended loan period as a proving period before deaccession?

For a deaccession the NRM should be the leader for the release to the media rather than the new body as from today it looks like they are on the back foot.

 

Would you like to borrow my garden shed for a bit?

 

Concur with all that wholeheartedly.
It seems vital that the general principles are publicly understood, including how such things are initiated.

 

You may not be aware BUT this is NOT a new policy - it simply reflects the NRM's view that certain exhibits within the NRM collection are better displayed within the area with which it is best associated and, providing a suitable body (i.e. heritage line) is available within that area to look after the exhibit, there seems no valid reason to prevent the exhibit being transferred from NRM to local responsibility.

This policy was the reason why - in 1982 - the NRM was happy to let the Class 502 trainset, associated with Merseyside, be maintained by the Merseyside-based Southport Steamport Museum; this was the NRM policy then and is the rationale behind the transferred ownership of 563 from the NRM to the Swanage Railway - the local exhibit being maintained by local enthusiasts within the area with which it is most associated. It is the same rationale that led to the North Staffs No 2 being transferred to Foxfield and will doubtless see many other exhibits making the move to more local locations.

 

From the information available it appears that the NRM has not followed its own procedure as quoted in post #79: "When objects are approved for disposal we will always aim to keep them in the public domain. Priority will be given to National and accredited museums. We will not gift items to private individuals. Where a more suitable home in the public domain has not been found objects may be offered for sale."

Transferral to the Swanage is not keeping the loco in the public domain, nor is the new owner a national and accredited museum, nor has the loco been offered for sale. If the information presently available is misleading, the NRM should provide clarification pronto.

 

Space is only an issue at the nrm if they 'deaccession' all that lovely land for housing. It's a shame its still in govt hands, a Trust type perpetual set up might be a better solution for State run museums. If you think how they are simply trashing the NHS there's worse to come when 45% of our trade grinds to a halt with Brexit.

 

Difference is, that is in working order. Very often hot and regularly has lots of oil splashed all around it, that all tends to help stop it rotting away.
A cold none working engine stored outside is very different, especially one with all the nice bright steel and shiney brass that 563 has.

 

If these comments are attributable to the railway I can only wonder why the loco is being passed on right now. Was it not possible for the NRM to hold on to the loco until such time as the railway would be in a financial position to maintain it under cover and subsequently restore it? The wording 'long term' does cause concern to me.

 

If it is an extension of an existing policy but instead of loaning transferring ownership, how does this process begin? Which party identifies the prospective partnership? Is it a proactive process by NRM?
Can we look forward to the L&Y radial being gifted to ELR? 6229 to Crewe Heritage Centre? 6000 or 92220 to Swindon & Cricklade?

 

Public domain, as in being accessible to the public not looked in a private barn. So I think the Swanage Railway ticks that box.

 

If so, I'm afraid you reinforce my concerns that the driver is offloading rather than preserving assets. The NRM has long loaned exhibits for significant periods, allowing the benefits you describe but mitigating the risks that the new owners may be unable in the long term to live up to expectations.

I stress, this is an unease about NRM or NMSI policy, and not any form of comment on the Swanage Railway.


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The SVR built The Engine House to arrest the rapid deterioration of out of service loco's stored outdoors - and this in landlocked, salt air free Worcestershire.

 

I really hope not history shows the ELR is poor at steam loco restoration and equally poor in supporting 'its own' restoring steam locomotives eg 73156 now approaching completion at Loughborough, 5337 now based at Llangollen,92207 based elsewhere, 80097 two yrs away from completion since 1986....1300 based at Ribble steam railway, though ironically back on loan to ELR, the Turkish 8f formerly of swanage and the gwsr etc.
On a further note nrm released exhibits don't seem to fare well in the real world the lnwr steam crane was almost scrapped,the deglenn compound spent many years rotting in the open at wansford before appearing on eBay and returning to France. The 502 unit ended up in a terrible state stored at steamport and beyond. Austerity loco respite was sold as surplus only to be replaced by another example years later....

 

You missed one! - the MHR have had 850 & 925 for quite a long time & up until the end of 2015 both were running for the public to enjoy.

Currently 850 is under cover awaiting overhaul & 925 should be back in traffic very soon following intermediate & frame repairs.....

 

Great summary of Swanage Railway achievements. And Strictly Bulleid is looking fantastic and a must visit.

 

Exactly, both fantastic examples of the NRM appreciating where certain locos in their collection are most appropriate. I've always thought that was great, and as Fred says, has been happening for some time happily. What has changed is that when making these same decisions to get the same outcomes, it now appears policy is for transfer of ownership rather than long term loan. I don't see what advantage this brings over other arrangements, and find it rather odd.

 

As I said earlier a look at the previous discussions on the North Staffs 0-6-2 gives lots of information on that transfer of ownership the following is lifted from that thread that some may find useful (and should stop some of the wild speculation) I do however encourage you to look at these previous discussions:

Our criteria for disposal are - poor condition/duplication/unsuitable for collection/more suitable for another museum
If an item is considered for disposal, I then make up a case which I present to our internal Board of Survey, where it is peer reviewed by colleagues from the NRM and across the Science Museum Group, and searching questions are asked.
The Board may then recommend disposal or they may refuse it - I have had both
If it is approved, then the case goes to the Science Museum Collections & Research Group for ratification or otherwise
It then gets taken to the Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board who may make comments or recommendations
Then it goes to Science Museum Group Trustees for their approval and sign off

If Trustees sign it off, we can then offer it to a suitable recipient, who may or may not have already be identified.
Items for whom there is not a readily identifiable recipient go here, where the process is outlined again:

http://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/object-disposal/

I hope that makes sense and explains that it is not being done on a whim. There has been a big review of signalling collections in recent times and there will be more. It's all about sustainable and responsible management of the collection.

www.nrm.org.uk
Anthony Coulls, Apr 28, 2016

 

Shropshire, but built for the reasons you say. It was a temporary home for the Midland Compound - shame they weren't giving things away then....