Ton up Tornado

I understand the nature of wanting to get loads of publicity out of this and its right and proper that they should. Its a fantastic achievement that the A1 trust have done, but again its DB Cargo that have actually pulled it off. Yet, when PR starts and statements are made you rightly try to advance your agenda and promote your item. Its fine that Tornado are doing this and it gives them much generated headlines. You can bet that a plaque will be put on the engine (rightly so) and that yet more spin will be done when its unveiled, which again, its right and proper. What I take issue with is the idea that because Tornado is newer, they are the ones that should run at 90 and others by implication, shouldn't. With the P2 set to follow its a real dividing line that goes beyond promoting your brand, that ours are new and should, vs older that cant. Its simply an idea that doesn't stand if they all regardless of age have to meet the same standards. However, this now is a point that has been well and truly made.

Personally, I'm far more interested in the connotations that this event will lead to.

Its great for the future of mainline steam that this is going to take place, and its obvious that new measures and safety are going to be needed to run at 90. However, the 90mph issue would mean that paths out of areas like Kings Cross and Euston, would be a lot easier to get. Add a water carrier to the train formation and you have a high speed, non-stop run that can suddenly run out of the busy stations, but importantly, allow access to passengers starting journeys in the south east where the population is higher and thus its back to an area of the market that can be tapped for paying passengers. With the network getting closer to capacity, paths at 75mph are harder to find, meaning runs onto the slow are inevitable. With 90mph this can be avoided, but other safety measures are bound to be needed. Hi intensity electric lighting, air brakes, paperwork and I would also think reliability figures will all be needed to ensure that a FTR+ exam for 90mph is passed. I wouldn't be surprised if a diesel on the rear becomes compulsory to ensure that it doesn't block fast lines and can also assist if needed.

90mph has been done by Bittern on the run from York to Newcastle on the return leg in recent years. Its also been done unofficially years when given instruction to increase speed and get out of the way of following expresses, but now OTMR will have stopped that, hence pathing into places or on loops so as not to cause conflict with regular timetabled services.

I think the trend for this has been coming for sometime, that the future could really shake up the market and mean that DBCs success using Tornado here could give others the chance to run with this operation if needed. I suspect the number of engines that do might be limited and that some charter operators might think their current operations satisfy the market. Some might choose that it is unnecessary, but for those that do go for it, I suspect that this move will bring an interesting new chapter that means last nights events are great to celebrate.

Brilliant isn't it!

 

The racing stretch from York North junction to Northallerton can take trains a lot higher than 125 mph. Its often used for testing new trains built when they have to have a run at top speed to record what speeds they can set. I have spoken to drivers at Darlington that said Voyagers and Meridians put in impressive results and before OTMR several 91s interestingly made up delay time between Darlington and York....

 

Damn! This is really bad news. Means I'm going to have to invest in a new camera with a faster shutter if I'm going to film her at this speed.

 

Literally no one has said this. Or even inferred this, aside from you.

Basic compliance. Every individual locomotive has its own control system and safety case to answer for.

No one has said that.

 

Agreed, a classic case of over-analysis to justify a personal agenda?

 

Based on the logic of shutter speed being 1/10x the train speed then any camera with a shutter speed of 1/1000 (i.e. 10 x 100) should be adequate; surely your camera isn't that old ?

 

Out of curiousity, What is the issue with vac brakes at higher speed ?, I know they take longer to release than Air, But surely it's the applying that's the critical bit ?.

Hasn't 86259 operated up to 100MPH with sets in Vac mode before too ?.

 

Before anyone gets too carried away with 'what about this or that loco', the Network Rail rule book has to be followed.

Section TW5, preparation & movement of trains.
Sub section 14, 14.2.
This section refers to portable headlights.
In short any traction unit carrying a portable headlight is restricted to 75mph.
This is regardless of it being a steam locomotive, a class 47, Deltic, 67 or electric loco's such as 90 or 91.
If it has a portable headlight, it's down to 75mph.
So as virtually every steam loco carries one, it's 75mph. End of story.
Tornado's high density headlights are fixed and hard wired, that's why it was permitted to run higher.
It was these lights that Bittern used on her 90 mph runs whilst Tornado was on maintenance.
If any other group wishes to try for over 75 mph, they will need to fit permanent high density headlights that are hardwired, not battery.
Then they have to ask Network Rail!

 

Presumably one of a number of major requirements to be met?

 

Quite! I mean, why let facts get in the way of a good agenda...

 

One last thing...

So to confirm: I am a supporter and covenanter for Tornado, have been for over a decade now. My late grandfather bought a few parts (boiler tubes amongst others) for me and that's where it all started for me. So of course, as you say, I have some personal interest in the locomotive.

That does not however get in the way of the fact that your points have seriously twisted what has actually been said and done. Why you feel the need to fan flames where none occur (the new versus old steam locomotive argument is wearying - no one has stated anything the like) is beyond me.

So is there any chance you could take a step back, breathe, have a look at what's actually been said, and maybe apologise? Because you're putting words in the mouths of people who have both Tornado's and railway preservation's best interests at heart.

If Tornado proves it can be done by following some set criteria and providing a template in terms of compliance for others to follow, then that's to the good of us all.

 

So in a several years time we can look forward to a P2 being tested to 90mph plus ( with a view to approval to run at 83mph) as this seems to be the way the a1/P2 SLT are keen to go... whether any of the other big uns go with this way I would imagine is down to their owners desire to see this and whether the potential extra work available justifies the expense...

 

Don't get carried away, it's got to be built first, all donations gratefully received etc.

 

Les Jackson was the driver, also his last run. Mike Notley's log says 96 but cl47 speedo showed 102 and 6229's read 100 twice.

 

Hehe. I do video, so different rules apply. Was planning to upgrade to 4K this year anyway. Everybody else has.

 

You don't have to trawl the internet very far before coming across some idiot reporter who's got it totally wrong

http://www.scunthorpetelegraph.co.u...-in-50-years/story-30266843-detail/story.html

 

I believe that ordinary cast brake blocks tend to heat up at high speeds & this reduces the friction against the wheels until down to sensible speeds.

Bob.

 

I don't know what pressure air brakes work at but then maximum brake force you can get with vacuum brakes is what 21 inches of vucuum gives you (25 inches on the GW) so the braking distance will surely be greater. The whole thing therefore depends on how far it takes to pull up to a stand from spotting a double yellow aspect or have I got that wrong?

 

That sounds fair enough, But don't air brakes use the same brake blocks on dual braked loco's and charter stock ?.