LSWR T3 563

Perhaps not, but there were also some unique trams transferred to Crich - http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news/?p=15250

 

Should have pointed out earlier that the NRM is not the only museum disposing of railway related items to another organisation. The Museum of London has donated to the IOWSR a train destination board of the sort which used to be displayed on the side of guards vans. Not of the same order as a whole locomotive indeed but it shows the NRM's actions to be less unique to them than some would have us believe.

How this item got to London in the first place is not known.

PH

 

Paul, not sure if this should be in this section? , but its interesting all the same, i'm imaging the boards were taken off and dispoosed of when the steam stock was earmarked for withdrawal . and a fitter moving to the mainland taking it as a momento of their time , either that or a light fingered member of the public after all i would think a lot of stores were needed to be burnt rather than sent to the mainland ,they would not be needed , so put them on the bonfire .i dare say thats how a lot of stuff ended its days ,or taken by the local preservationists for spares.

 

Martin,

I agree about whether it should be in this section but I posted it to hint to the "placard wavers" that they ought to develop a wee bit of a sense of proportion.

A lot of I.O.W. stuff was sold privately (some came to us eventually) but I was puzzled as to why this one made its way to a specialist London museum. Ironically they are having a clearout inter alia to make room for a vast amount of things discovered during the Crossrail works. Space is the perennial problem for any museum

Paul H

 

I have to agree about museums having to look at their collections on a regular basis, as new finds come to light , Crossrail as you say, has unearthed a lot of new artifacts, and these will have to be displayed somewhere, the problem is that no where now would have spare capacity, look at any museum, i dare say every bit of space is in use , and any spare space will be at a premium ,and in some cases, the building its self creates a problem with how you can display items.

 

While some people were busy banging their drum on here, I took the "revolutionary" step of contacting the NRM regarding the T3. I've learnt more from this one reply than from 36 pages of froth on here. Amazing what a polite enquiry can achieve.

Thank you for your enquiry of 22 April, which has been passed to me for a response. Apologies for the lengthy reply but I thought you would be interested in a more detailed response.

Reviewing the contents of collections in order to increase public benefit is promoted by the Museums Association as responsible professional practice and takes place as a planned, strategic activity across the Science Museum Group. Our collection stands at c.7.3m items, the majority of which are photographs and archives, with c.425,000 objects including around 250 rail vehicles.

In line with our governing legislation, the National Heritage Act 1983, we have a duty to ensure that we do not keep items that, for a range of reasons, are not relevant to or suitable for our collection. As a museum Accredited by the Arts Council England, we publish our Acquisition & Disposal policies, including the criteria for disposals, on our website:https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/policy/group-policies/

Since 2015 our Curatorial team at the National Railway Museum has been assessing the Locomotives and Rolling Stock collection with the view to ensuring its sustainability in the long term, so that we can continue to make acquisitions of rail vehicles. This has involved reviewing any duplicate or similar locomotives or rolling stock which we may hold, as well as assessing each object in terms of condition, relevance to the collection, future priorities and display and research potential. The number of items disposed of is small in relation to the overall size of the collection.

When considering this specific disposal our Curatorial team recognised that we have a number of 4-4-0 type locomotives in the collection, mostly from the Victorian-Edwardian era. This has resulted in an imbalance in the collection of steam locomotives from this period. Four of the 4-4-0 type locomotives that we held were from the Southern Railway and its constituents, and this particular example was considered the weakest in terms of its relevance to the collection and future potential to be operated or displayed at a Science Museum Group site.

The T3 locomotive type had a long association with the railway to Swanage, appearing in historic images of the line in operation from the 1890s to 1930s. The links for telling the story of the line are great and Swanage Railway are better placed to explore this narrative than the National Railway Museum. Swanage Railway have a museum at Corfe Castle, a locomotive shed at Swanage and an off line accessible workshop/store at Herston and the locomotive is likely to spend time displayed under cover at all three locations in due course.

We have a rigorous disposal process whereby all cases must pass through successive stages of internal scrutiny as well as our Board of Trustees for final approval. In line with Museums Association guidance, where there is no obvious location for transfer, we advertise these on our website to other organisations: https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/object-disposal/.

Increasing public access to our collection is one of our key priorities, and by 2023 the vast majority of the object collection will be accessible online. We also lend objects, including locomotives, to other organisations where they form part of the core collection but we do not have space to display them ourselves.

Over the next decade we are also committed to delivering a Masterplan which will create new galleries, learning zones, public spaces and visitor facilities at each of our museums across the UK, including developments at the National Railway Museum. The developments at the NRM will be the biggest since the museum opened in 1975.

I do hope this helps explain the situation but please do not hesitate to contact me should you require any further clarification.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to us, and for your enthusiasm for our collection. The T3 will be the jewel in the crown of the Swanage Railway and we are pleased that you are excited that this locomotive is now based at that lovely line.

 

Bravo @Spamcan81 - somebody has finally cut through all the piffle on this overlong and now tedious thread.

Sir, I salute you!

 

Doesn't really say anything new though or address any of the expressed concerns. You could summarise it as "we decided we had to get rid of a Southern 4-4-0 and picked this one". In particular it doesn't answer why it was decided to gift the locomotive rather than retain ownership.

 

@Spamcan81 - you mean you didn't need a FOI request, or involve your MP?!
@Jimc - if you read the NRM's response, it is clear that they didn't "just pick one".

 

No. Thought I'd be daring and ask the NRM direct.
Not that the answer I received will placate those who have big drums to bang and large axes to grind.

 

?? They didn't pick two to dispose of, or none, so it seems to me that they picked one.
If you are going to put words in quote marks as if they were what I said it would be good manners to do so accurately. I didn't use the word just, which puts a completely different cast on it.

 

Thank you for your efforts Ian - sometimes it's better to ask the organ grinder rather than the monkeys !

 

There's no need for them to address concerns , they have produced a policy decision and followed it through. It's obvious why they gave it away rather than loaned it, gifting the loco means no further resources need to be budgeted to it in the future.

 

It's an answer, and as a prominent sceptic I'd like to thank Ian for posting the respons. It also clarifies the answers to a number of questions. It conspicuously does not say much about future plans, instead just referring to the options Swanage have for storage and display.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The NRM have followed their stated policies and those of the Science Museum Group. They have provided links to the policies in the reply to @Spamcan81 . It would be sensible if NP members read the policies and thought through the implications. As I pointed out up thread, the future changes to the NRM and its activities that result from following their existing policies are unlikely to appeal to many traditional railway enthusiasts and not just in the matter of locomotive disposals.

 

I did not spot any comments regarding this local newspaper comments. Admittedly the SR spokesman did mention the historic aspects of 563 however the headline focused on its role as a film star rather than as a historic item.
One hopes that the historic aspects of 563 will prevail over its tv and film career.

 

Isn't his paraphrase far closer to the spirit of your statement than your paraphrase is of the NRM's statement (which is also presented in quote marks)? Pot, kettle and black come to mind!

 

Excellent, well done. Top stuff.

 

Yes +1 from me too - glad to see someone has taken the bull by the horns unlike some of the moaners on here.