West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Does anyone know why The Somerset Explorer cant get to Minehead on the 13th? I don't mind that we have to do Bishops Lydeyard to Minehead behind a Western instead.

 

MD=Minehead
DR=Dunster
BA=Blue Anchor
WD=Washford
WT=Watchet
DD=Doniford
WN=Williton
SR=Stogumber
CH=Crowcombe Heathfield (older WSR folks may still use the original CE=Crowcombe)
BL=Bishops Lydeard
NF=Norton Fitzwarren
TN=Taunton

Apparently first used in the early days of the "new" WSR to help overcome probs of cramming station names on multi-journey tickets.

Steve

 

Can I recommend a trip to familiarise yourself with the names, geography and other delights of West Somerset?

Robin

 

it's the CE and the LC that have me confuddled

 

CE - Crowcombe

LC - Level Crossing.

Not forgetting ABCL, AOCL, TC, OH, IH, FPL, CL, DMMU, QB, SK, TSO, FO, BCK, BSK, RU, RMB, PW,...........

 

There is of course more to the income stream than raw passenger numbers ( it would be interesting to what the percentage take up of seats provided per year the 190,000 Passengers per year represents)
The spend per passenger in addition to the basic fare is of course a key extra slice of the income pie
This will include shop and cafe spend - all good profit areas
Special services that can be added to existing service trains - the Saloon, a QB stock attachment, Robin's Pullman all spring to mind.
Stations can be a destination in their own right for the cafe/visitor centre/museum although care needs to be taken that the cost of the visitor centre/museum is covered so that they are self funding otherwise the WSR is commercial going backwards in this area.
Any activity that requires extra locomotives and stock needs to be bringing something to the party as well.

If costs by the careful mix of volunteer and paid staff are controlled, we get more bang for our buck.
Volunteer input can bring so much both directly by effort and in-directly by contacts and expertise.

We have track, stations, carriages, locomotives, wagons that all need attention, the more the merrier, plenty to do.

Jeff

 

FS trains is down to one seat left only which is on the last train as well.

Update all now sold.

 

Thanks for that.
WE only need to remember 5 - 6 names on the NYMR.

And Robin.
A trip along the line is long overdue.
1992 was last time and 1977 the previous visit to MD.

 

Whilst I agree that the line needs maintenance I also agree with Robin’s thoughts regarding pushing all things forward together not sitting back waiting for more customers to come in by themselves to pay for improvements. I don’t know the WSR business model so only have an opinion but a good business model would fund things this way and I would expect the WSR’s to follow this rationale.

For the WSR or any other preserved railway to have a sustainable ongoing future the normal annual income needs to cover and be used to keep what there is going, this includes of course the track and infrastructure maintained to the required standard ongoing, in other words the income must keep up with the maintenance otherwise you are going to over stretch the business model and burn the reserves until you go bust.

Money for improvements, new loops, etc. needs to come from either unallocated reserves, fund raising, share issues or donations as one off costs, the ongoing maintenance then dropping into the overall ‘on costs’ of the business so these projects don’t get done at the expense of maintaining the track or anything else but also happen rather than wait for more income first, the phrase ‘speculate to accumulate’ comes to mind.

As has been said pushing all elements forward together not one at the expense of another, if we sit back and wait for more customers to arrive to pay for upgrades it will be a long wait. I believe the PLC is planning a better fund raising capacity for the WSR from what little I know, this is the way forward to take the WSR to the next step. It then leaves the question of in what order do we improve the railway as there is huge potential currently, this debate needs people to consider how the Southern Gateway Project is structured, its the key to the future currently.

 

Firstly Andy please accept my apologies for editing your post in a most unkind way, but the point I'm trying to make is a serious one.

I always read your posts and you regularly and consistently make sensible & considered points about the WSR the vast majority of which I wholeheartedly agree with.

You list your occupations as "WSR volunteer plus a day job" May I respectfully speculate as to what the latter may be? Corporate Lawyer, Business Consultant, Public Relations Executive? I am genuinely interested in what you have to say and always keen to know what regular volunteers think (I live far from the railway). but I seem to be constantly skim-reading your posts due to the fact that you bring in your obviously extensive business experience to such an extent that it sounds more like an exercise in Public Relations than a volunteer's real insight, and the latter is far more valuable if unadorned by corporate double speak.

Again, my apologies for being blunt, but it would be much more interesting and readable to hear your straightforward thoughts on problems, solutions and mundane practicalities.

 

Out of interest, to what extent is line capacity a limiting factor on increasing passenger numbers (and thereby turnover)? Are the proposals for extra loops primarily to increase capacity (i.e. the number trains that can be run) or to change the section lengths to allow a more passenger-friendly timetable, or a bit of both?

Looking at the WSR calendar, there are relatively few days (aside from galas) when a peak capacity service is run, i.e. trains crossing at every available point. (I appreciate there may on some days be extra revenue-earning services that don't appear in the public timetable but require line capacity, such as footplate courses, QBs etc). So on how many days per year do you think that the extra capacity provided by additional crossing loops is required?

Tom

 

The answer is rather more complex than a post here can cover. The additional loops would come into their own for Galas and events, and allowing driver experience courses to operate through more of the year.

However a significant feature of WSR traffic is that it is 'tidal', coming in from Bishoos Lydeard in the morning and return from Minehead in the afternoon. There is now a desire for the Quantock Belle lunch train to return from Minehead after a short layover rather than after the passenger service as previously. That can only be accommodated on the minimum service at the moment. Otherwise all afternoon return paths are filled, even on the next level of service up from the minimum.

Robin

 

Thanks for the post, you are 100% correct in your views. The easiest thing to describe me as is a Business Consultant who is currently the Managing Director of a Recruitment Business based in the South West. Recruitment is a new thing for me and I reached this through 35 years of clawing my way up from a council estate and no real education (no sob story I’ve enjoyed every minute of it) through Middle Management and Training/Consultancy to Senior Manager/Director roles in small, start up and large national/international companies before setting up my current business 8 years ago. Therefore Business Change, Management Training, Process, Business Structure and growing Companies is my daily bread and butter and has been for a long time. This does spill over into the WSR as it has so much growth potential it hurts and sometimes I see people stopping that potential because they don’t know what they don’t know (how about that for speaking bluntly).

Sorry about the corporate double talk, you are right it’s a default position for me. But I’m also a lad from a council estate so I can be a lot blunter and lot more emotional I just don’t tend to show it on here, others here are better at it than me. I think it’s fair to say that the WSR has got under my skin as it tends to do for many I volunteer with so I try and use the skills I have to have a view on the way forward and try to give something albeit in a small way back to a hobby I enjoy, I’m not in any position of authority on the WSR just a Passed Cleaner so it comes out on here instead.

One key thing that I have changed in my approach since being around the WSR is to understand that the passion and knowledge around the WSR is over whelming, many corporate companies would pay millions to get that level of buy in from their staff, sometimes that’s overlooked and that’s a shame. I would often like to be straighter talking but feel I could upset too many people if I always spoke my mind and it takes all sorts to make a world (WSR)!!!! Thanks.

 

Thanks for the positive reply Andy. It takes a good man to accept criticism as good-naturedly as you have done.

You describe yourself as "just a Passed Cleaner". That is of far more value to the railway than somebody such as myself who could most accurately be described as "just Past It".

Please keep posting what you think, it will be far more valuable and readable from the point of view of Passed Cleaner (Soon to Be Fireman?) than a Business Consultant, not that the latter doesn't have a place in the world, probably in the Algarve or the Bahamas.

 

Thank you. I think if you look at the Plc's balance sheet & P & L you will appreciate that there are no unallocated reserves. The PLC a decade past wisely considered that it should relay a mile of track each year.

If we applied a BCG Box analysis to the Railway as a whole we would not consider it to be a 'Star', certainly not a 'cash cow' but regrettably we would accord it 'Dog' status, (Similarly I suggest every other Heritage Railway, other than the P&D but that is not a model we as enthusiasts I suggest wish to emulate ?) unless one can be sure of generating cash outside the core business eg donations/legacies etc,

The current overriding PLC business strategy wrt earnings AFAIK is to generate sufficient net margin to fund infrastructure maintenance. Based on the published accounts, according to my reading, funding from the business has not been sufficient to meet the mile/p.a commitment for some years. Hence the track is now a priority. Stating the obvious, no track no Railway

Regarding Tom's apposite comment re pax capacity. It is now a decade since we carried 207K p.a. Since then we have completed the loop extension and associated signalling mods at Williton. We now, if loadings justify, have the means to run nine (even ten) coach sets in both directions ie we can pass ten coach sets at all three passing stations. Most of the year (outside the Summer peak) other than first departure from BL our trains are seldom more than three quarters full.

Typically on our two train service, assuming every passenger took a full line return we would have (depending on consist i.e. TSO/SK/BSO/BSK) 700 available seats per day. If we run the DMU then another 300 or so and if, as at the peak time another steam set but only making one return journey 375. This is assuming seven coach sets and inevitably some wastage. Obviously if we add one, two, or three coaches to a set these numbers increase ( a TSO seats 64). Simplistically, apart from the occasional peak and August we are not limited as we are. Increasing set sizes offers the ability to handle more passengers. If we have 250K pax it will be "a nice problem to have." we might then restore running the third steam set second 'up and down' roster.

To paraphrase, as of to-day "It's not the economy it's the track"

Michael Rowe

 

Which analysis assumes that growth will come from addition passengers on conventional services.

Premium / alternative services offer alternatives which are much more revenue-dense.

Robin

 

Of course you have more knowledge than me about the WSR, I’ve only been around a short time. I hope what you say isn’t as bad as it sounds, as you say if a business plan is that badly off it must bring questions to the door of WSR Management ?

As you will know for a company to run as you describe for so long it’s either deliberately burning its assets from the inside to increase its profitability/price before sell off (clearly NOT the case with the WSR) or its management has lost focus and is heading for a sticky end if they don’t have a robust and sustainable business plan that stands up to reality. With respect I hope you are wrong otherwise the road will run out (literally) as you describe if the plan is to rely on donations for routine track maintenance.

 

Premium / alternative services offer alternatives which are much more revenue-dense.

Is the Taunton Flower Show looking for a new home ? Perhaps at the NF site ?

 

First the TFS is wanting to move as they are going to be charged to use their current site so it is unlikely they will want to pay hardly anything if not nothing for the use of the ground so wont be a money earner for the railway family.

Also if the TFS and the VR both stay the same dates as now, there will be a problem as in most years the TFS is on Friday/Sat and the VR is on the Sat/Sunday of the same weekend, and even if the TFS went to their old days of Wed/Thurs there unlikely be enough time between them both of them. I would be surprised if the TFS would be happy to move weeks and a lot of the exhibitors/traders will have other shows other weekends as well, this could also apply if the VR moved its date as well such as a vintage car rally at Bridgwater the following Sunday.

 

For the record. It does no such thing, it merely postulates that there is, without the need to 'burn' capital the facility to carry more passengers with only minor changes to the timetable i.e. increase consist and/or run the third steam hauled set on two return journeys. Any business that can be generated by themed charters etc is 'part and parcel' of our normal operation.

Andy, I am suggesting that most Heritage Railways have a set of accounts not too dissimilar to ours. In fact for many years we actually ran a businesss that was close to being self supporting. Perhaps for that reason, and the difficulties the WSRA were having, we fell behind (compared with other Heritage Railways) in fund raising.

Compare and contrast our fund raising with the Bluebell, SVR, GWSR etc. Andy, Heritage Railways are not to be judged as if a Car Dealership, Consultancy or even your local bus company, unless as I said you want to run a Paignton and Dartmouth type operation ( but then they have the Ferries, circular tours etc. a balanced business, basically enthusiast and Heritage issues free.) which is not something I would volunteer ( and that assumes they would want me) for !

Michael Rowe