Saint Class 135 ish mph

Even into the 50's they regularly took locomotives up to high speeds on test runs after attention in the works at Swindon (source - my fathers conversations with trials drivers when he worked inside) another favourite for having an unofficial go was the overnight Westbury milk train, especially down dauntsey bank as at night there was no one to report the drivers bar the signalman who turned a blind eye.

My father heard regular stories of drivers taking then well over 100 although the concensus seemed to be that they would go a fair bit faster but the drivers lost their nerve.

Will we ever know, probably not but just because it wasn't recorded by someone with a notebook does not mean it didn't happen?

Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

 

It seems that this thread is rather like a religious belief. Some will accept what is written others will not.
One thing is certain and that is that the GWR were trend setters, others followed - often having had the benefit of working with Swindon practices .

 

Really?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2782/4416925836_24ff9a1346_b.jpg

 

The celebrated industrial designer Raymond Loewy saw pictures of it and was inspired to produce this

 

Just goes to show that even Raymond Loewy had his off days.

 

Hearsay? the word of CB Collett you dismiss as hearsay? That he was present and told the story sets this story apart.

 

Why? How many times have you heard old enginemen give exaggerated accounts of feats of speed which you know cannot be true. I'm sure Collett could tell as good a tale as any engineman, or fisherman come to that. Does not mean its true just because he said it.

Peter James

 

I think the Lehigh Valley did it better.

 

This does all seem highly speculative. Where is the primary source evidence as to what Collett actually said? And how should we necessarily trust his recollection of events from 20 years previously? And why should he necessarily be trusted just because he designed impressive locomotives?

 

So the letter that Mr Collett ( the CME of the GWR ) wrote to the Railway Magazine for publication
giving details of this run is what in your opinion ?[/QUOTE]

If this letter to the Railway Magazine was published maybe a copy of the article would prove or disprove the details. After all C.B.Collect wasn't any old railwayman in a pub.

 

The Railway Magazine, April 1932. What had happened was that a retiring officer had said in public that he had been on a GWR locomotive at 120mph, and Collett, when asked, confirmed that the incident had happened, they had recorded times equivalent to 120mph, but then words to the effect that the timing wasn't of high enough quality to claim a record.

 

To consider a 100% speculative example, if you had timed two successive 15 sec half miles with a one second stopwatch you'd be pretty confident the max speed was in the 120mph region, but you wouldn't even consider reporting it as a record claim.

 

Then there was the tale of a driver of a lowly goods train desperate to get home to I believe a Christmas party who took a Black 5 to 100+ mph as related by his fireman who said he read it straight off the speedometer. Did Black 5 speedometers even register up to the ton??? Cant remember if I read that here or somewhere else.
With the passage of time facts seem to get lost in a swirl of legend and conjecture. Casey Jones had a famous wreck and he rear ended another train and was killed fact. Beyond that it's pretty much legend. His speeds are all over the map which is pure conjecture. Even the IC Railroad's evaluation of the wreck is vague at best. Days before on board telemetry and facts were up to who stated them.

 

Wouldn't doubt something like this did happen, but despite my leaning towards most things Gwr I'm not so sure about that 120 figure...

 

George Augustus Nokes, the first editor of The Railway Magazine, wrote in 1898 a History of the Steam Locomotive under the pseudoname G A Sekon.

It includes the passage "At the end of September, 1839, when the 31 miles of the line was open to Twyford, the driver of the
'Hurricane', having obtained a promise from the directors that they would provide for his wife and family if an accident happened to him, undertook to drive the 'Hurricane' to Twyford at the speed of 100 miles an hour; and, allowing three miles for getting up speed and stopping, it is stated that he successfully covered 28 miles at the rate of 100 miles an hour."

 

I am sorry but the only comment that can be made on this is:- "So?"

PH

 

Many years ago I read for myself Collett's letter printed in Railway Magazine when I had access to a substantial archive of same.

I do not think that anyone could accuse Collett of exaggeration in any of his dealings with the press or his Board of Directors.

He is always portrayed as a rather staid individual.

That he was a bit of a 'hell raiser' and 'speed merchant' in his early years at Swindon is perhaps the most interesting aspect.

Those on the footplate in superior positions in 1906 went to the quite extraordinary lengths to get the signalmens' registers checked and noted. It is very interesting to note that Inspector Flewellen was on the footplate - who was also on City of Truro's high speed dash in 1904.

Now why should Collett join such a menial task as testing a loco out of the works he was in charge of, plus Inspector Flewellen? Something was afoot!

I do not believe Tuplin's account in his book at all about the reverser slipping into fullgear, but I do believe what Collett wrote and was printed in the press many years later.

All those who would have heard about that exploit at the time it took place and later when made public by Collett never questioned the claim after Collett's death.

My own view is that this was the culmination of testing W H Pearce's GWR version of the Stephenson valve gear events for the Churchward 2 cylinder locos in his standard range of locos.

Cheers,
Julian

 

Still does not add up. Why go on such a foolhardy venture light engine, with absolutely minimal braking ability, when the attachment of a few vans, whose weight would assist a downhill rush, would also give a far greater brake force when the need to stop arose. You say that "all those who would have heard about that exploit at the time it took place and later made public by Collett never questioned the claim after Collett's death". Could that be because there was nobody who heard about it at the time?

Lets face it, even in 1900, you would not go charging around the system on high speed trials without the adequate ability to stop should the need arise - in other words you make up a train to go with it rather than go light engine. The only advantage of a light engine, it seems to me, is that there are far fewer people involved who could contradict any outlandish claims made years later.

Peter James