Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Medical officer's saloon for disposal from MSI

Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Medical officer's saloon No 247 / 5902 / 10825 / 45017 appears on the Science Museum Group's disposal list for April 2017.

See page 8:

https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/SMG-Disposals-Advert.pdf

VCT Carriage Survey entry:

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=570

Hope this is of interest and can be acquired for future use or display.


Keith

 

I hope where ever it goes that it goes under cover, so it doesn't start to deteriorate in a few years time.

 

And somewhere appropriate to the L & Y

 

I'd back the LMS Carriage Association, who have appropriate experience as shown by 7828

 

I can only think of one appropriate home for this vehicle & that is the Vintage Carriages Trust at Ingrow.

Bob.

 

what about the LYR trust who already have a fleet of restored L&y coaches?

 

I'd be surprised if the VCT would want it - I think they have declared themselves full up. I'd have thought the obvious home would be with the L & Y Trust or failing them the LMSCA but, assuming it is being restored to its final, converted, state I can't see it being of great practical use to anyone - it will be a museum piece.

 

Well you've probably heard by now but the LMSCA came out as the intended recipient for 10825 after a bidding process - and we can't wait to get going! It will a few weeks until the move as there are a few minor hurdles to be overcome admin wise.

This is the link to our blog about it, also the CCT E94630 we have just turned out to be our upholstery workshop.

http://lmsca.org.uk/blog/2018/01/doubly-good-news-2018/

Happy New Year to all.

Dave

 

Beautiful. For some reason, I've always had a soft spot for CCTs and their ilk

Quick question; in the earlier part of the video on the website, a short six-wheel chassis was seen to be tagging along coupled with a length of chain. What was it?

 

Looks like this one with the body dismantled, MR 1060 brake van http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=8687

 

I hope there is going to be covered accommodation for this coach to keep it in good condition.

 

I think the LMS coach association is a good place for the coach to go as they are an enthusiastic bunch who have done a lot of good work on LMS vehicles and I have met some of them.

but I do question

Q1 Why did the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry want to dispose of it especially as it looked to be in good condition ? it seems everything is going, 3 Engines now a coach ?

Q2 It was restored over many years I believe there by a small team of volunteers at the Manchester Museum ,not sure who ? but how do they feel about it now being disposed of ? Maybe they are supportive I don't know ? I know there was upset that they had lost their running line so volunteers had drifted away. Is that what prompted the museum to dispose ?

My Grandfather was an LMS driver and do wonder if he had his medicals etc in the coach. Have seen it from the outside would love to look inside.

 

Interesting thoughts from @toplight. Without seeking to understate the possible pitfalls surrounding de-accessioned museum artefacts, consider that, over the past six-and-a-half decades, the heritage railway movement has (for the most part) matured beyond recognition and it is often heritage lines who are now seen as a far better and appropriately specialist option, with the relevant expertise to conserve and display railway artefacts.

There are always going to be exceptions, preserved Royal Train rakes being one such, but when it comes to allowing the public to experience artefacts in the context for which they were first designed (as opposed to merely viewing them in a museum's exhibition hall), surely seeing them in action, rather than stuffed and mounted, has to be more informative.

I relish the cooperation we're seeing today between different sectors and the heritage railways, much of which would have been unthinkable 40 years ago. Problem or opportunity? Depends on how it's done of course, but isn't that true across the board?

 

Does a bit, doesn't it? Wonder why it was chained to the CCT though?

 

My grandfather was also a LMS driver, he started with the L&Y in about 1911, he probably had his medicals in it as well.

 

I too would like to see them run, but the point of my post is were the volunteer team that restored it over many years in Manchester given any say over it, or was it all done over their heads by the Science Museum. I have read there has been a drift away of volunteers there so not sure if that included those working on the coach, but presumably the expectation was that it would stay in the museum when complete as an example of a coach manufactured in Manchester. It may be that they didn't have resources to finish it and were happy to pass it on, I don't know ?

 

Fair point. Short answer ... I haven't got a clue either! Volunteer labour, like financial support depends on many factors. If those museum supporters you mention happen to be conserving a carriage one day and a Tudor chamber pot the next, it's reasonable to assume they're there because of the museum. On the other hand, what if it was the carriage restoration itself which drew them to this location? I recall that much of the volunteer base involved with the FR & TR extensions in the 1970's had little or no interest in performing any other role and moved on to the next project on completion. I dare say there are many examples supporting the opposite view just as well.

 

To try and answer some of the questions, the museum no longer see 10825 as part of the railway story they want to tell - I imagine that would very much be Liverpool and Manchester Railway early and mid 19th century. We've been contacted by volunteers involved in the original preservation in 1971 and it would be good to hear from anyone involved with it at MSI - we don't know the whole story but what they did was excellent.

Re MR six-wheel brake van 1060 (of 1904), the body has been taken off and there is extensive corrosion in the solebars/headstocks which will have to be replaced. It had to be taken out of our shed so that LMS Third Open 7828 could go in for a bit of tlc. The drawgear has been removed so we had to chain it to E94630 and just popped the buffers back in the holes in the headstock so that when it gently bumped into the CCT it would be buffer to buffer.

I attach a plan one of our members Ian White has prepared showing the changes over the years. The room on the right (12' 1" long) was the Medical Officer's office - and had four ashtrays - how times change!

Cheers
Dave

 

I am pleased to say 10825 arrived safely at Rowsley yesterday thanks to Reid Freight and was shunted down to our shed where it will stay outside for a little while for the bogies to be checked over.
Cheers
Dave