35018 British India Line

At least it is not the "pink" paint that was used on Royal Scot.

 

True but I think a BR maroon or express passenger blue faithfully applied to a Scot would be a handsome sight. Historically totally inaccurate, granted.

 

Paint it any colour you want if you own it especially if it pisses folk off ! If not buy the loco and then paint it what you want with correct this and that logos .

 

Anyone owning a historic artefact has a duty to history, no one would buy a historic house and then paint the walls bright blue. Painting a loco just to piss off folk as you say is just plain childish

 

As is just going on and on about it as though it'll change things. QED.

 

Totally agree, paint it any style you want but do it well at least so that it does the restoration justice and shows pride in the job.

 

Pretty sure nobody believes NP has any influence whatsoever.

 

It does not seam to apply to the many owners of industrial Austerity tanks who paint them in BR black though does it?

 

Totally non authentic but looks great with the Crimson subs, I don't recall anyone having a go at the Class 20 Society for 20227's current paint job. Blue, black, green or maroon, whatever your preferred choice of motive power, who cares just as long as it works and we can enjoy it?

 

Sorry John, but 35018 is Mr Smiths machine, and he can do what he damn well likes with it, historic object or not.

 

its funny to see the reactions of everyone who gets triggered by locos wearing different liveries and names, I know I would do the same as WC do.

 

Of course its the perogative of the owner to paint his or her loco in what ever livery they choose,I doubt antbody disagrees with that but isnt it also ok for other people to have a view on things? As has been said you can talk about it until you are blue in the face (or what ever colour you choose to go.....) it will not make a difference. but this is surely the meaning of a forum (noun: 1.a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.) but all to often anybody saying they dont like the livery or its not authentic get abuse and shouted down. Ive had "you should be grateful the loco is working at all" thrown at me, trying to imply im not grateful but in the end its peoples thoughts and both sides should be heard without people getting uptight.

 

Factually you are correct, but in a number of instances it seems to be a case of ownership (not just WCR) giving way to sheer bloody mindedness.

In earlier discussions on this subject "entitlement" seems to be a word which crops up a lot and it is open to various interpretations. On the positive side I think David Smith is entitled take considerable pride in his achievement in restoring BIL and several other locomotives. He has invested time, trouble and huge sums of his own money in bringing Barry wrecks back to life and, thereby, great pleasure to all enthusiasts.

When it comes to the other side of the coin I very much disapprove of his apparent motivation. Whilst we rarely hear from him personally the usual justification offered by his supporters is that of "personal choice". Well, speaking personally, I'm not so sure about that. Any owner of historic artefacts should accept that as well as an entitlement comes a duty of responsibility and the comparison with stately homes made up thread is an entirely appropriate one.

I may be wrong but the impression David Smith gives, intentionally it seems, is not a personal desire to seen locos in black, maroon, green or any other favourite colour but to stick two fingers up, not only at enthusiasts and photographers, but also the world in general. Not only is this distasteful but it can hardly help his business interests. Admittedly not everyone is looking for an authentic journey experience, but those who are will likely favour Clan Line next time they make a booking.

Entitlement is all well and good, but when it extends to changing external appearance, applying inauthentic numbers and even lions cycling backwards then entitlement is not just distorted, it becomes thoroughly warped.

A very fair point. BR black looks good on (most) BR locos, which did of course include a few austerities. I am certainly in favour of a bit of colour and variety on preserved locos where appropriate. With industrial locos owners often have the ideal opportunity to present something eye-catching and even unique, but the same principles of accuracy should apply.

Finally a point made earlier in this thread deserves repetition. This forum is supposedly National Preservation, not paintitwhatevercolouryoulike@dulux.com.

 

I tell you what we should all be thankful for...no engine has been subjected to the 'hot rod' treatment yet - metallic fleck paint, chrome everywhere, perhaps some coloured neon lighting underneath, some tasteful flames licking back from the smoke box, and to top it all off, an airbrushed picture on the tender of a naked woman clad only in a giant snake.

Count your blessings!

 

This might just be me but, ignoring the 'renaming' as Bodmin, I rather like the black paint and TOPS numbering. Had steam survived for a few more years it might well have ended up looking exactly like that.

 

Have you ever spoken to David Smith ? - If not don't presume on his thinking. I have spoken to him in the past and whilst I may not agree with some of his actions his commitment to steam traction is both keen and heart-felt. He is almost very modest in not seeking publicity but simply gets on with the job and does what it says on the tin - provides motive power for his trains.

To quote a phrase - he's made a small fortune from operating steam traction by starting off with a large fortune ! The financial side is his (and the company's) business BUT his operation has provided a pair of Jubilee 4-6-0s and 6115 Scots Guardsman; for the latter alone I will forgive him virtually anything !

That said his adaption of 35018 IMHO is an example of his humour and - if you can't see the joke - don't go lineside. I have yet to see the latest operation due to hospital visits when the train has run but I look forward to viewing something different before it returns to a more normal livery and operation - and appreciating the time and effort committed to its return to main line operation.

 

Yes I've met him, though not in recent years. As I hope I made clear in my second paragraph I do believe he deserves considerable credit for his undoubted contribution in repairing & maintaining many steam locomotives. In this respect he is clearly committed and entitled to due credit for his achievements.

Where I differ from your view is that I don't see putting two-fingers up (on at least one occasion quite literally) at those who are potential customers of his trains as demonstrating a sense of "humour". It is undoubtedly correct that without his input the preservation world would be poorer. That dichotomy is, for me, the inexplicable aspect of some of his very public actions. It seems very sad that someone who should be more appreciated for his positive work chooses to promote such a negative image.

 

I quite agree. This is a discussion forum to discuss things. I get fed up with all the silly comments people make if someone dares to mention livery ( "it's only a protective coating to stop it rusting", "it's their loco, they can paint it pink with purple spots if they want to" etc etc)

Of course it's up to the owner what colour they paint it, but why aren't people free to express their opinions?

It's also up owner which loco they restore next, where they base it, which lines it visits etc. It seems to be ok to discuss these things without people throwing their toys out of he pram. How is livery different.

 

Wholeheartedly agree with those sentiments. Some of the actions are simply unfathomable by any rational assessment. Whilst being sincerely appreciative of the restored locos and rolling stock equally I am not naive as to think the venture is wholly altruistic, essentially being the product of one man's self indulgence - and which of us wouldn't given same opportunity? Enthusiast pleasure is simply an unintended by product of the investment choices.

 

Another option is to follow the 'pattern' of the way BBMF have painted their Lancaster in the past with different markings on each side, to represent different aircraft. This way we could have BR lined green on one side of Scotsman and Apple green on the other, with appropriate numbers for each.