35018 British India Line

I can see what you are getting at here, and certainly the Crimson Ivatt and Caley Blue tank were eye catching, even for a dyed in the wool (pun intended) traditionalist such as myself. It's not so much a particular colour, or a variety of colours that jar with me, as mentioned earlier I think more industrials should be used to display the sadly neglected and highly individual rainbow palette which was once common on all manner of private lines.

I'm not sure where your statistics come from to support the assertion that "the vast majority of punters liked it". I don't for a moment doubt it that many visitors, especially children, prefer locos as near to Thomas, James, Henry etc as they can get, but BIL will clearly be mainline for much of the time and not primarily a children's entertainment. In the years I've volunteered on my local line I don't think I've heard a single visitor of any age declare their preference for Donald or Douglas.

Everyone seems to agree that paint is a very personal and highly subjective issue and in that regard there can be no "right" answer, but there can be an accurate answer. Most "pro-black" supporters on here make much of the fact that Joe Public doesn't really care, and, whatever percentage split you choose I think that is a correct assumption . It therefore follows that if this is so why alienate the minority? I don't know what the split is between the interested and disinterested on a typical mainline steam charter, maybe 60/40, 70/30 even 80/20 it matters not. If the majority don't mind the colour why not accommodate the preferences of the remaining 20, 30 or 40%? It's has to be a win-win decision to satisfy everyone you can with upset to no-one.

I don't think anyone either side of the argument would try and deny physical alterations are sometimes necessary in order to run on the MDTR. Electrification flashes to the latest design are mandatory and essential safety equipment. Altered tender arrangements reflecting changed needs between coal and water capacities we can all understand. Most operators (WCR sometimes excepted) fit air pumps as necessary standard. All very sensible & usually discreet. If I believed that BIL was black for aesthetic reasons alone it might still not be my preference, but I could certainly understand their decision better. What none of the "an owner must do what he likes" supporters have even attempted to address is what particular purpose is served by the false nameplates & other inappropriate embellishments. Do those who support black support these also? or are they conveniently ignored despite being inexplicable elements of the whole.

Victor rightly highlights the engineering achievement, many others praise the overall accomplishment, finance, dedication and skill provided by all at West Coast from the top down right through to every individual who has worked so long and hard. All of this is true and I echo it thoroughly and completely, but a very old expression favoured by my grandfather was "why spoil the ship for a ha'peth of tar".

I'm left with one final worry which follows from the "popularity" argument. A few months ago a competition was held where a public vote was taken to choose a name for the latest British Antarctic Survey vessel, the overwhelming answer being Boaty McBoatface. Popularity is not always a good argument for following a particular course of action, especially with a Merchant Navy awaiting plates.

 

That'll be the next thing. The Oxford Union debating society duly note that "This house deplores the colonial connection of the nameplates to be attached to said locomotive". It'll end up being Merchant McNavyface by default.

 

Depends if you are interested in the educational and historical aspect of railway preservation or just running it like a fairground attraction

 

I'd disagree. A preserved railway has a history of its own that extends beyond what it becomes a museum of. It seems perfectly reasonable to define that identity in livery, and make that a new life for the locomotives rather than reverting to their previous existence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

History stopped in 1914, according to 1066 And All That.
Black with two white lines would be entirely historically accurate for BIL.
No one going for my suggestion of NBR or Furness livery? Shame.
If black, would Horwich or Crewe lining suit the big loco best? (White inside red or red inside white).

 

Merchant McNavyface!!!!!!
Love it. Has anyone got Mr Smiths number?

 

Carnforth 98018

 

Pretty much agree with that and I think what is unsaid is the concern about what a livery choice made for negative reasons might indicate about the leadership of a firm the industry, and by extension us, are so reliant upon. Not bashing, just saying.

 

I'm intrigued as to how you've come to that conclusion.

 

The British India Line Shipping Company's funnels were black with 2 horizontal white stripes. I believe that BI became part of the P&O Shipping Group (the MN which carries that name is of course painted in the correct livery!)
http://iancoombe.tripod.com/id12.html

 

Black with two very wide white lines.

 

The prettiest little liners afloat, they were.

 

Getting back to the engine, rather than the shipping line, if the test run on Thursday does turn out to be the full loaded test on the Blackburn circuit, i am beginning to wonder how likely is it that we will see both MN's run their first revenue earning trips , maybe not on the same day, but certainly days apart, i wonder if an unwritten agreement has been decided that both engines will return at about the same time, Clan line on one of the advertised trips, BIL on the Dalesman ?

 

Nice sentiment but not sure how cordial WC and MNLPS relations are to that extent.

 

you misunderstand me, i dont mean an " understanding" involving both WC & MNLPS, but a set of separate plans that have dovetailed, into a situation, for instance, both engines returning to the mainline for LE tests on the same day, and if 35018 passes its loaded test, and is availible then its possible it may be turned out on an Dalesman, as it is scheduled for 7p/8f power , possibly at about the same time as Clan lines first runs, i wonder if WC has an Southern style Dalesman head board .

 

There has been a Cumbrian Mountain Express one in the past. I wonder if that is still knocking around. Haven't seen it used on anything since the 90's though myself.

 

Surely the difference here is that MNLPS are a society preserving Clan Line and historical accuracy of an artefact would be expected, especially as people have financially supported it, subject to the constraints of a modern railway mentioned above.
As I understand it WCRC is a commercial business, who have not requested any public support to overhaul BIL. I may not like the First Group bus livery, but that is their choice. When I worked at BA the ethnic tails were crap, but hell we got a lot of PR out of it.

 

Ok. So on that basis 34081 should be painted in RAF camouflage.

 

Or red and yellow checks.