GWSR General Discussion and Operations

A wind-up? Not at all. Isn't it rather dismissive of you to assume I can be ignored purely because Mr Hitchcock liked it?

My twins are very used to steam travel - they were only 6 months old when they first saw a steam loco and visited a signalbox - so I suspect it's telling that this is the first time one of them saw fit to comment about the level of grime. It certainly suggests there might be something up with the carriage cleaning regimen. I realise it's difficult when you are relying on volunteers with set routines - some railways find it more efficient to employ carriage cleaners - but would it make more sense to move the cleaning to Fridays? Or if the railway is closed on cleaning day, invest in stepladders and a line block? The procedure for "block the line to clean carriages whilst the signalbox is closed" could be as simple as "hang a notice on the signalbox door".

I'm not sure what I was looking at at Winchcombe and there was a shunted with the engine turning over, so it's likely some shuffling about was under way. Two things come to mind: firstly when looking out of the front carriage of a Down train towards Toddington, all I could see as the line curved were coaches in very poor unrestored condition; secondly in some of the further-back sidings on the east side of the line there was stock which looked to be in for-scrap condition completely overgrown.

And as I said I can't comment on what the food at Toddington tastes like, but it certainly didn't look appetizing and I didn't really want to feed my kids there.

All in all I won't be going back - in my opinion, and based on other things I haven't really touched on, it seems very much like an "ok for uninformed families, dull for the enthusiast" railway.

 

It would not be right (or fair) for me to single out the GWSR so can we avoid the specific? However, when an "active volunteer" has thoughts of this kind, the reaction ought to be a little more than just affront, understandable though this might be. I recall a comment by a passenger on one tourist railway that, having been disappointed by them previously, she was pleased to find one where as much attention got given to cleaning the inside of the carriages as the outside of the locomotive.

Even when using relatively clean burning fuel, a steam locomotive produces dust. I do know of a railway where the carpets in first class get vacuumed twice a day. Modern, cordless, devices make this possible.

PH

 

I think you're getting a little overexcited here Paul! Forgive me forestpines if I've misinterpreted your post, but I don't think the cleanliness of the inside was under question, only the outside? Certainly the inside is cleaned every day, with Mondays being the day for s thorough going over inside, in addition to the outside being given a wash. Unfortunately Mondays are, at least for some of the year, the only convenient day. Either way, you're always going to have a day just before cleaning day where the carriages are at their worst, and if you'd visited then you may be suggesting moving cleaning day to a different day altogether!

Both rakes of carriages are stabled in Toddington station for cleaning, so to clean the non platform side of each is difficult; personally I wouldn't be keen on being on a stepladder on the ballast.

If you say the shunter was turning over, then as you say, it's quite likely things were being shuffled about and some things that might not usually be on view were.

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Speaking as a shareholder, I visit the GWSR every year with my grandson. We sample the bacon rolls in the Buffet coach as a highlight oif the trip. I have always found the coaches to be spotlessly clean and those recently outshopped as good as new. I visit at least six other heritage lines with my grandchildren and would rate GWSR as one othe best , especially the catering. If I had any concerns at all I wouldn't take them there.
That said one has to be realiustic. Modern railway coaches are hermetically sealed air conditioned units, modern traction gives off no dust. Heritage steam locomotives give off dust, and heritage carrige windows are often open so that people may enjoy the sound and smells of the past.
You cannot compare heritage railways to modern traction, and if one cannot accept this as part and parcel of the experience then best to stay in your sealed box on wheels rather than come here and complain to those of us who love the sound and smell of the real thing.

 

Regarding the rolling stock, and I assume that the broken down stuff you saw were coaches awaiting overhaul at Winchcombe, then this link might help in illustrating the work being done to reduce the less attractive items by restoring them for use.
http://cwatgwsr.blogspot.co.uk/
There are also some items of rolling stock at Winchcombe, tucked away in the yard, which are in a very poor state. I understand they are privately owned and their removal by the owner is awaited soon.
I'm sorry you won't be going back to the GWSR, no heritage railway can afford to lose customers, however good that railway's progress is and, believe me, I joined the GWSR in 1982 (as an active volunteer then) and it has come on in leaps and bounds since opening to Cheltenham in 2003. I will be visiting the GWSR again on Saturday so I could show you round and buy you a drink if you want! If you had a bad experience, did you let any of the volunteers there know at the time? Constructive criticism is always welcome.

 

I'm TTI on train 1 on Saturday, do say hello!

 

Will do. I'm meeting up with a group visiting from the Lincoln Railway Society and our visit will include a guided tour of the loco Department and the C&W Department. I will sample the food in the Flag and Whistle as it is some time since I've eaten there and Forestpines may have a valid point about catering. That said, I'm not too fussy with food which doesn't help!
Whilst working at Toddington on 1 July - 1984, this is the view I had from the road bridge. The Flag and Whistle Café opened in 1986. Another country.

 

Had you been called a "polemicist" you would get "excited". Much as if I had called you an "apologist" I suspect. Let's get away from epithets and back to issues, preferably in the abstract rather than the specific.

What may be acceptable to enthusiasts may not be acceptable to others, be they part of a Shearings coach holiday or, for that matter, the small children of an enthusiast. Things can be ameliorated by not using "cheap", smoky coal and doing as much cleaning as possible, using modern equipment to save labour. Tourist railways are in competition with country houses, animal sanctuaries and the like. In none of these will visitors feel they have to be careful about making hands or clothes dirty. In another thread I expressed the view that tourist railways could do better. I still think so.

PH

 

When I said overexcited Paul, I meant that you launched straight into your usual spiel of how important cleanliness inside carriages is. I agree with you entirely, but I don't think that was the problem so not really relevent here.

I bet even on the IoWSR if I wiped my finger on the outside of one of your coaches it'd come up dirty. If that happened inside, then that wouldn't really be good enough, but I'm sure it wouldn't, neither on the IoWSR or on the GWSR, but I really feel attacking steam railways for having coal dust on the outside of their carriages as a bit mean, especially ones with long tunnels!

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I took a look st the negative reviews on Tripadvisor (I should stress that the overall rating of the GWSR is 4.5+, so very positive) and amongst the few 1,2 and 3 star reviews, I can't recall cleanliness being mentioned at all, and food only once as I recall. So while any feedback is useful, my gut feeling is that were cleanliness a systemic problem, it would have featured more prominently in reviews. (I note as well that the GWSR seems to take a proactive stance on replying to feedback on Tripadvisor).

Disclaimer: not a GWSR member and not a line I have visited for several years - I really ought to get back some time.

Tom

 

I think you might be pleasantly surprised about the IOWSR but everywhere has an off day from time to time! As I said before let's try to avoid specific references.

You are, I think being a bit too indulgent to lines with tunnels and their cleanliness. Some of the most "huh" remarks I have heard came from someone about her "local" line. This has a tunnel.

PH

 

But you certainly get positive remarks about cleanliness vis a vis other unspecified tourist railways. I am ultra cautious about Tripadvisor and its ratings though. It can be very capricious as witness a low score given because there was no "period" canned music!

PH

 

Martin - I find it hard to accept that security was a concern at Gotherington and even if that is a valid concern at CRC, I don't see how the use of fake Cotswold stone breeze blocks in place of bricks, together with UPVC windows and and plastic "slates" on the roof enhances security.

 

My trip to the local rail museum today turned up this topical information board:



It was always, and so should remain, an adventure!

 

I was very surprised by @Forestpines post.

I visited the GWSR a few weeks ago for the first time in over a decade and was extremely impressed with how smartly the trains and stations were turned out, smoothly the operation ran and with catering at both Winchcombe (morning coffee!) and Toddington (lunch!). The Toddington menu was not that of a 'characterful' small cafe, but was realistic as to what could be achieved rapidly and to good quality when a trainload of passengers all appear at once, something other preserved railway tea rooms seem to sometimes fail to take into account!

Steven

 

This discussion has got far too specific as it is and I am not going to add further to this. However @Forestpines (or particularly his children) need to be listened to without indignation creeping in. Tourist railways are no different from any other activity seeking to earn their living in the leisure sector.

PH

 

Well I think we've listened subsequently and I've also asked the question (twice) regarding letting the staff know on the day of the visit of any aspects that might have adversely affected the day, to which, thus far we've received no confirmation or denial. Constructive criticism is always welcome since, as you rightly say, "tourist railways are no different from any other activity seeking to earn their living in the leisure sector."
I'm going to say no more on this either as I'm sure most people already know that the GWSR is a heritage railway that I've "matured" with(!) so I will tend to defend it, particularly if I feel it has been somewhat unfairly criticised.

 

I'm not sure my kids would have had any useful reaction to anyplace I took them when they were only 6 months old...

As to the rest, I don't have a judgement either way. Yes, in some sense, the customer is always right, but at the same time, lots of other people paying customers seem OK with things. I dunno...

Noel

 

It looks as though something has fetched the security camera at Broadway a fearful whack during the night. It seems to be lying on the ground, and I guess it must be snowing up there, as it's giving a close up of a very white-looking bank!