Sentinel works no 6807 Gervase

Kent and East Sussex 'Gervase'.

Does anybody connected with the K.& E.S.R. know what happened to Gervase? I photographed this engine at Rolvenden in July, 1962 and wondered whether it is still there or, if not, what hapened to it.

I have just put the picture on my Fotopic site and if anyone would like to have a look, it is here in the 'Stop Press!' collection : http://ronfisher2.fotopic.net/p47678092.html . I shall transfer it to the Kent and East Sussex collection in a couple of weeks or so.

I would be grateful for any information.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

that certainly is a strange beast looks cross between a sentinal and a battery eletric loco

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Not really official, however.................

I think a few components (Frames and wheels), were still scattered in the mud along the lineside last time I looked, but I don't think much more of it exists. In real terms I suspect it's basically no more.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Tragic really if that is the truth, I know that it wouldn't exactly have been a great deal of use to the KESR but could you just imagine the uproar if that was an ex BR loco?

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

I think most of it still exists, certainly all the major components. There was a group of people interested in having a go at restoring it a couple of years back but not a lot seems to have happened. One of the guys in that group has recently re-appeared on the scene so perhaps I'll ask him if they're going to do anything with it. It would be a great shame if it was never restored again but it will only happen if someone's prepared to do the work.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

i know this may seem a stupid question but what exactly is it? all i can see is that it has 4 wheels. is it a sentinal, battery electric, diesel? if it's not electric, would that large box at the opposite end to the cab be its exhaust? and what's the pipe sticking out of the cab? it looks fairly run down in the pic, but was it dissasembled when the picture was taken? as there are several drilled holes on the cab

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

I'm assuming that it's an 0-4-0VB Sentinal geared locomotive; perhaps someone from the K&ESR could confirm this, or correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Thanks for the info. Any idea how old it is?

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Correct! Manning Wardle (1472) of 1900. Rebuilt Sentinel (6807) in 1928. From the K&ESR Stockbook of 1987.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

I remember finding a book on the early years of the KESR at Spa and spending many of my shop turns reading it. I was gonna buy it one day but found it had disappeared the day before, same day as a member of the KESR had been around....

It looked to be a very intressting loco, Mercia(spelliing?) is also very intressting and I was pleasantly surprised to find it in the workshops when I went round them a few months ago. I would love to see it steaming, it's probably my favourite loco even though I know little about it!

Ross

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

He who hesitates is lost. If I want to buy a book, and dither, someone else will have bought it just before I finally made up my mind! Of course, it was the last one and it's out of print!

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

I was one of the four people who looked at the possibility of restoring Gervaise. I am afraid to say that the position is not quite as rosy as previously presented. The frames sit at the bottom end of the Rolvenden "sewage works" siding, and have been exposed to the elements for a great number of years. The wheelsets sit on the other side of the running line, together with the cab front. The inner and outer boiler sections are in some long grass by the Rolvenden up inner home signals, and appear to be beyond aid. There are a number of components completely missing. We have been told, via anecdotal evidence, that all the backhead fittings were stolen in a burglary at Resco Railways many moons ago. The complete Sentinel "engine", cylinders, valves, etc, have disappeared. There is no water tank present. The outer bodywork/cladding has gone, as has the chain from the chain drive. All in all, there is not a lot left.

So why did we look in the first place? Well, the engine is historically significant, both to the Kent and East Sussex, and in a wider sense to Sentinel themselves. Only three engines survive that are rebuilds by Sentinel of other people's initial constructions. Gervaise clearly is one of them. Secondly, I am fairly certain I am right in saying that Gervaise was the first engine to steam in preservation on the KESR. Yes, it might not be the most useful engine in the first place, but if we applied those criteria across preservation, then we could scrap half the items we have all preserved.

The fact is that this really would not be a glamour project, and funding would be a real pig! I know that we have somewhere to take the engine, a small team willing to look at it, and several engines that can help with technical information. But is it a project too far?

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

I'm certainnly very supportive of the project if it ever started.

Does anyone know when Mercia(spelt???) is going to come out?? Another loco I'd love to see!

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Oops. I meant to answer your questions, ovbulleid, but got sidetracked! The engine is a Sentinel 0-4-0 VB chain drive tank engine. The box at the opposite end to the cab was a makeshift cover for the top end of the cylinder/valve gear assembly, which sat vertically at that end. The holes in the cab are actually bolts protruding through from the inside of the cab, which I believe held backhead fittings. The pipe I can only presume is to do with the safety valves, that were actually situated inside the cab, and caused a panicked stampede the first time they lifted! It was virtually complete when photographed, seemingly missing only the con rods. (Incidentally, one of the few bits we have found!). I am pretty certain that Gervaise was running in 1964, so this may have been how she arrived at the railway from industrial service.

As a point of interest, the engine in the background would appear to be fellow Sentinel "Dom". This engine arrived at the KESR already beyond human aid. It was used as a guards van, and ultimately sold to the Sentinel group at Quainton. I believe that it was broken for spares. Sadly, it has lately come to our attention that Dom was the engine section of a railmotor on the Jersey railway, and that the preservation group there had been looking for it for years. Anyone at Quainton know what happened to Dom once she got there?

Marcia is progressing well, and may steam before the end of the year. I believe that the target is for a full steaming next year, but watch this space. Doubtless Seagull knows more about this one than me!

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Regarding 'Dom' - I was not aware of 'Dom' actually getting to Quainton, though it would have been long before my day if it had...........

Looking at the BRC online stockbook perhaps it became or was used in the restoration of 'Isebrook', also a Sentinel 0-4-0VT (or VBT?), which is similarly reported as being stripped of boiler and engine parts and was in use as a brake van? Isebrook has since moved on from Quainton, but its details are at http://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/6515.htm

I will try to find if any of the old timers at Quainton remember more, but most of the sentinel guys are no longer around there - though there are still two sentinel locos and a sentinel SMU at Quainton.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

the sentinal SMU is something that is very interesting i would love to see it run

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Hmmmmm, I have a few (A lot, because someone shut the railway) weekends. I'l lend a couple of hands if needed.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

From what I understand there is a small team working on the SMU - but it is slow progress, I guess it is not the highest priority to take resources! I can think of a few lines where it would make an interesting, if somewhat surreal sight #-o.

Some info on the SMU is at http://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/smu.htm

Tim

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Having never seen Gervaise im not sure if it is the same but there is a Sentinal locomotive somewhere near the Ironbridge museums in static display looking a bit worse for wear. Cant remeber its exact details or whereabouts but im pretty sure there is one there along with a green Andrew Barclay.

There is also a short clip of Gervaise working on the DVD Steam in Kent from Online Video.

Andy

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

There are actually two Sentinels at Ironbridge Gorge Museum, although one of them is so stripped that there is no bodywork at all. They are the other two rebuilds by Sentinel of engines manufactured by other makers. We believe that they are so similar, or that the main components would have been built to similar patterns, that wwe would be able to get most of the technical details needed from them. We initially thought that the engines were not officially preserved, and we may be able to "obtain" them to salvage the parts needed. This clearly is not the case, and once we can establish what we need, then we will make the appropriate requests to inspect the engines.

Ron 45669 has pictures of these engines too, I believe, and I would be extremely grateful if he would give me permission to use his pics for reference purposes. Is that ok Ron?