Royal Duchy 2017

How about doing a day with a main line steam support crew and see how you like the incredibly long hours and hard work before criticising them?

 

Sorry but got to ask. What's changed with LSL? On 15th Sept 2013 Braunton did a superb Bristol-Par and return with 9 up, a feat repeated on 6th Sept 2015 when the Brit did another brilliant Bristol-Par and return with 9. I talked to members of the Support Crews at both Par and Bristol on both trains and they all said they had a great day out.

 

Please explain in what way the trip has been "ruined". Still 7 hours plus of steam haulage and plenty of steep gradients,what is your issue?

 

Now whos being ungrateful. All the support crews do the job on a voluntary basis which includes myself. The hours on trips are long and hard and dont stop when you have gone home to your bed. We are still disposing locos long after you have gone home and are often up and working before you even open your eyes and think about your day on a charter, so you could try an apology but I don't suppose we will get one. A bit more thought would be nice.

 

I think the route of the problem is that the support crews, who do sterling work, have made a rod for their own back! We can go back now over 45 years to mainline steam and long, long hours have been quite typical and never a moan from them, well hardly a moan. These guys and gals going into this, surely, with their eyes open and know that long days are part and parcel of this voluntary work. If they did want it or didn't enjoy it, they could walk away. With the Royal Duchy story, I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye as they have done Bristol to Par in the past several times and I am not aware of any whinging then.

 

Why do we need four quoted posts jumping down the throat of the poster of "Shame they ruin it for paying customers"? The forum has a 'LIKE' button on the first reply! and reading subsequent posts would be more interesting.

 

Both of these posts are very insightful. The support crew role is vital to the operation of steam charters and the staff whether paid or volunteer are essential resources, without which there would not be a viable basis. Undoubtedly changes in workplace demands have impacted other role so that it is very much different to 20 or 30 years ago. Some of the programmes are quite ambitious and demanding these days too. With other TOCs now said to be in the offing a couple of questions come to mind as to whether the current resources will remain adequate and, secondly, whether succession / recruitment processes have evolved with the changing demands.
It seems likely to me that there will be mergers of societies and owner / operators that will lead to a natural depletion in available workers so I wonder whether the TOCs themselves have thought about having sufficient competent resources in-house to support a hired in loco for example with minimal input from the owners. Also what active recruitment processes could be deployed to attract potential suitable new recruits to operational roles who may currently be deterred by thinking there is a closed shop or no obvious means of getting involved with the likes of VT, WC or IOS for example. I am not saying there are no means of getting involved but they may not be self evident.
It's a complex issue shared to some extent by heritage lines too. Recruiting into the voluntary sector is very difficult itself, getting round pegs in round holes even harder. If there is an ambition to maintain or grow steam charters it is something that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

 

"Shame they ruin it for paying customers" must be one of the most depressing posts I have read on this forum. I echo what has been said up message stream but I will add the following

When I started stewarding back in 2006 a Kings X-York trip used to leave after 0800 (sometimes even after 0900) and get back around 2100. Now it is 0700 or earlier and back near 2200. Most other trips have gotten longer as the national network has become more congested. This means support crews have all these extra hours to endure as well, probably having slept in the support coach in less than ideal conditions. There have been a number of tours in recent years that have been "shortened" because of support crew issues. I also seem to remember some years back WCRC saying they would no longer handle steam trips that were over 200 miles in total. Even on the revised steam section it is still more than that on the Royal Duchy.
I do not know what the current rules are for support crews but the timings for The Royal Duchy amount to 11 hours 20 minutes of tour time, plus the preparation and disposal has been mentioned. That is a long day, I know when I worked full time the only time I worked those sort of hours was during disruptions caused by weather or strikes (or as a volunteer railtour steward). I certainly made sure I never applied for a job with 12 hour shifts.
Eleven years on I find the "recovery time" from as tour is now about a day and all I do is walk around the train and stand up a lot of the time. I can not imagine how tiring it is when you have to move coal forward, oil round, water etc. For me it is the difference between being 54 and 65 years old and I sleep in my own or a hotel bed before and after a trip not a support coach. Despite that I briefly nodded of at the wheel driving back home from London off my last tour, not to be recommended! If the support crew are still work age some of them also probably have to drive somewhere when their day is finished.

I think we should be thanking them for doing it all not berating them

 

Sorry everyone I didn't not mean for the comment to sound so insensitive

 

Fair play to you for apologising.

 

agree with above, no need for bad language

 

Can we get back to the train... Is it running steam hauled and is St. Blazey available to turn locos??

 

That's the most sensible comment so far. Someone has made a totally unsubstantiated comment claiming it is a support crew issue and a classic Nat Pres argument breaks out. When the steam section was shortened last year we were told supposedly "on good authority" that it was because SPM could not stable/service more than one steam loco. Now it seems that someone who works at SPM has told us that is complete rubbish. So how do we know the support crew issue is correct? I wish people would check their facts before posting on here and be prepared to reveal their sources of information. All this "I know something but I can't tell you how I know....." does no-one any good.

 

Probably some truth in everything. We share what we think isn't contentious. This thread has shown even that isn't wise anymore.

Back to the train, I'm more disappointed with the timings. The return isn't any better than the outward. Pathing is such on the South West Mainline these days that we're allowed 87 mins from Plymouth to Exeter. A little prairie could manage that!!! (ducking for cover)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54910/2017/07/30/advanced

 

I did make a comment above about St Blazey Turntable. My friend has now sent me the pictures. Doesn't appear to be much room to push an engine around.