Current and Proposed New-Builds

Is it safe to assume you're not unduly enamoured of Mr Bulleid's Q1 either? I've always considered Ivatt snr a competent engineer and Ivatt jnr a quite outstanding CME.

Were I operating a railway, give me something reliable, easy to operate and maintain ahead of an ineffective 'looker' any day of the week.

 

Before it is, the class 2 2-6-0s and 2-6-2 tanks were very good

 

Q1 - fugly but effective, and it has a certain Art Deco/Moderne weirdness that is not altogether outwith the architectural zeitgeist of the era. I do wonder what it would look like given conventional cladding, running plates etc, though - any photos of C1 under overhaul with boiler in place? The GER Hill J20 ran it close on T.E. and was nicer-looking. The Reid J37 was pretty nice too.

Ivatt 2MT - sure - fine locos - but did they have to be such eyesores? Not as bad as the Flying Pig, mind. Amazing that Riddles managed to make the 76xxx relatively inoffensive.

 

They were nothing like as good as the old Queen Elizabeths, especially the magnificent Warspite (unofficial motto: "because **** you!"), which name shall be the first of my Bulleid-derived Royal Navy 4-6-4s (3 x 20” x 28”, 360psi, 7’2”, 50258lb)... ;-)

The Crewe KGV 4-4-0 was the best thing the LNWR built, thanks in part to some Brighton superheating know-how.

Not much wrong with Swindon's no.6000 either.

Re the B16 - the space between the bogie and leading driving wheels, necessitated by having the crank on the leading driving wheelset (why?!), looks horrendous to me. Totally spoils the proportions of an otherwise handsome loco.

 

The 2MT wasn't an eyesore, I see where youre coming from with the 4MT, although I quite like them, but the class 2 was nicely proportioned

 

So we have(on top of already being built/ Frankenmonstered) Steam
GWR all done except The Great Bear, Armstrong Goods from that old boiler
From Scotland a Highland River, Cardean, NBR Atlantic and Ben ALder
L&Y Highflyer and 4-6-0
GCR Sir Sam Fay and Jersey Lily
LSWR T1
LBSCR many types
GER Claud Hamilton
LNER B16/3
Raven Atlantic and or Pacific
LNWR Prince of Wales and CLaughton
A Galloping Alice from Oz
Some kind of Frankenmonstered Kitson /GCR 0-8-0
A Midland 2P from the existing boiler on that demic 4F
A single, any single
0795 CLass LSWR
No doubt Big Bertha,LMS/LNER Garretts
A Caprotti 5F have heard rumours of
A 3MT 2-6-0
Then there's the diesels as well.
You get wealthy older folk who would love to see this and fund it from their unwanted excess monies and inject it into money and jobs. Loco order by lucky dip
£200million should cover it! and build a works/employ staff good jobs!
Though a small part of said money should have to go to the demics, Diesel 45015 of course, and that Crab, 4F, 3F, the 2-6-0 as painted red like JAMES, and many others around the country. And a new boiler for Lizzie?
Simples.

 

There are a fair few on the Irish WIBN list too!

 

30854, I know very little about Irish Railways, they seemed to have an assortment of Victorian 0-6-0s, 2-4-0s, 4-4-0s and miscellaneous tanks, then added a few more up to date types like the Southern N class, three big 4-6-0s which looked a bit like Scots and the 2-6-4 tanks, after which they went over t and th

Talking about Irish Railways, 30854, I don't know much about them. Apart from the three big ones which looked a bit like Royal Scots, did any of them ever have any 4-6-0s?

 

I think Swanage have (or had) a plan for this.

 

You still missed the Thompson L1 / L4 update idea which I still think its the best and most useful engine that could be produced for steam preservation.

 

Yep. GS&WR produced an inside cylindered class, looking more like a stretched 'Dunalastair I', or an anorexic 'Jones Goods', than anything else and by Irish standards, a very short lived class. Probably the firebox and bearing issues which plagued so many early attempts at a 4-6-0, but what made them so indifferent to warrant no further development or reconstruction I can't recall.

The 400 class were conceived as the GS&WR's answer to the GW 'Star' class, but weren't. Construction issues led to legal wrangling with builders, Armstrong Whitworth. Frame weaknesses due to overdoing the weight savings led to the usual problems, the weight was still high enough to limit them to Dublin-Cork plus Killarney. The factor limiting their performance were poorly designed steam passages coupled with short travel valves (so much for the 'Star' comparison!). Following a report by Holcroft, No.402 was extensively rebuilt as a (rather fine looking) 2-cyl machine, but the cost of conversion was considered too high and other locos were less comprehensively rebuilt to 2-cyl configuration. The advent of the far cheaper Woolwich moguls brought the rebuild progamme to a premature end, with some locos remaining as 4-cyl machines until withdrawl by the 30s. None made it to 1960. If you want to consider this design in English terms, imagine Edward Thompson getting his hands on Maunsell's 'Nelsons'. One of the class was the only GSR loco to carry smoke deflectors, in which guise, IMO, it bore some resemblance to the Southern design.

2-cylinder Class 500 was a far better loco from the 'off', anticipating designs like the English Black 5 and B1 by some margin, though still with more route restrictions than ideal. Again, the arrival of the Woolwich moguls meant no more than three were ever built, with none surviving to 1960. A good looking reasonably modern design, but not really even a candidate for recreation.

On Cork, Bandon & South Coast Rly, a solitary 4-4-0t was rebuilt as a 4-6-0t. It only lasted until the 30s, but gave rise to the superb little 'Bandon Tanks'. These eight locos were a typically robust, vaguely Dutch looking, Beyer-Peacock design which spread out after grouping, with one or more to be found lurking aound Dublin to work D&SE services. The last was withdrawn in 1963. The CIÉ should certainly have preserved one of these. This, IMHO, is the only 5ft 3in gauge 4-6-0 worthy of consideration for a new build, though fuel and water capacity would limit its use.... but it'd be superb for the Downpatrick & County Down! Here's one in the GSR's cheerfully bright and needlessly gaudy darkish grey/black livery:

 

Thanks, interesting. Any pics anywhere of the 4-6-0 tender engines?

 

Online, right now, I can only find one of the prototype, No.400 in original condition. It looks like the official works photo.

The only others I have are in books recent enough for copyright considerations to apply. Annoyingly, I can't find anything (identified by class, at any rate) of the 4-cyl or rebuilt 400s (B2/B2a) in service, or 500s (B1). I also tried searching by known haunts, but I suppose it's no surprise that internet search engine on my Android can't differentiate between Heuston and Euston stations, although it does seem to know steam locos contained flanges, if some of the photos thrown up by my search are any indication of things... ('nuff said about that!). I'll spark up my PC tonight, to see if I can track anything down.

 

If it's me that scoops the Euromillions, please could I add a Gresley V4 to the list?

Edited to add, that hopefully the Euromillions wont be necessary if the A1SLT build it after the P2.

 

I beg to differ. Twentieth century designs are certainly very well represented, but there's not much from the nineteenth. A Dean bogie single is an obvious missing masterpiece, but my personal wish-list is several pages long...

 

You sort of beat me to the post Bill. In so much as I agree with you about nineteenth century locomotives. Whilst there's three of the early machines running at Beamish in the form of Puffing Billy, the Steam Elephant and Locomotion. There's nothing really until the LB&SC Terriers, Stirling Single, Hardwicke etc. It's a period I think of as the railway "Dark Ages".

 

Have 'Derwent' and 'Invicta' been scrapped?

 

Are they "Runners?" Bearing in mind the title of this thread Proposed New Build. There also the Rocket and not forgetting Sans Pareil replicas too. With Novelty in Sweden I believe though I don't know if she's still a runner.

To continue your list there's also Wylam Dilly [sister to Puffing Billy], the original Rocket and Sans Pareil, Agenoria the Penhryn narrow gauge loco too.

 

Absolutely. Dark ages in terms of preservation, but a golden age of railway travel. When you look at pre-WW1 photos of the railway scene and see the immaculate lineside, the decoration and cleanliness of the locomotives and stock, the sheer numbers of staff at even the humblest station, it's a different world. A gruelling working life for most employees, but what a spectacle!

 

OK..it's a fair cop!! BUT.....

Honest question.... Before significant improvements to forging techniques (1843) and Bessemer Process steel production (1851 or 1856.... depending on who you believe!), materials weren't uniformally great, so could any new build be said to represent a period design closely enough to accurately represent the prototype, given all the other concessions which would need to be made in order to produce a loco likely to be passed fit for use by acceptance bodies?