61994 Great Marquess

Once again you trot out these urban myths - where is your evidence of this? As I understand it Vicount Garnock died long before JC bought the loco (I don't think it was "passed" on to him) and it was bought from the family with no such strings attached. I would be happy to be proved wrong about this but I think BB has been talking to that man in the pub again.

Peter James

 

Let's say they are not in a contract but a verbal agreement.

Does it make it any less acceptable if that's how he managed to take ownership of the K4?

 

I believe that the matter was decided prior to Garnock's death, with his son handling the transfer of the locomotive. Either way, conditions were set out and widely reported at the time, and have not been met. The NYMR made Cameron a reasonable offer, to which he responded with reportedly unreasonable demands which rendered the locomotive's acquisition financially unviable.

 

I agree legally. Morally is another matter.

I have a saying - always do what you say you'll do. That seems to have stood me in good stead.

 

I appreciate you're trying to inject a degree of levity to this.

I just find it unutterably sad that a unique Gresley loco - and we're not exactly bursting at the seams for LNER steam anyway - is headed for an obscure location in Fife as its ultimate destination, never to turn a wheel in anger again.

If ever there was a reason to have a sort of "listed" status for railway relics outside of the NRM's own collection and remit, this locomotive proves it I feel.

 

Let's not forget that Cameron and Garnock were both men of generations whose word was their contract... an era before everything was stitched up by lawyers.

Garnock and his brother-in-law were both avowed steam nuts and locomotive owners. Montagu made damn sure his locomotive went to a home where it would have an operational future... do you think it probable that Garnock would give it away without any meaningful assurance that it would have a long-term operational future?

 

If memory serves the late Viscount passed away in 1989 or thereabouts and Mr Cameron acquired the K4 several years later? I also seem to recollect the loco attracting other offers at that time, reportedly including from the Jacobite King. I doubt anyone that frequents this forum will be in a position to verify the facts of the time so we are stuck with our regrets, sadly. Perhaps the present Lord Lindsay would have an interest if he is made aware?

 

OK, lets do a bit of a time line about this:-

1989 3442 returned to steam by the SVR for Vicount Garnock. It went main line immediately as the owner was very ill and wished to see it on the West Highland Line before he died. His wish fulfilled he died 10 days later on 1st Aug 1989.

The loco worked on the SVR , with occasional main line sorties, for almost the next decade.

1997 with the loco coming to the end of its "ticket" it was repainted as 61994 for its last few weeks in traffic. However this was curtailed when it suffered a crank axle failure, which at the time was deemed terminal, as the cost of repair was considered prohibitive.

In 2003 John Cameron steps in and buys the loco from the family having agreed to fund the axle repair and return the loco to steam. If there were any conditions attached to the sale other than the above they are between the buyer and seller and not made public. Had JC not stepped in at that time where would the loco be now? In all probability a static exhibit in the Highley Engine House along with all the other potentially working locos. So at his own considerable expense JC has given us a fabulous decade of running by 61994 which we would not otherwise have had. The loco is now rightly retiring to Scotland where it belongs.

Lets for just cut JC a bit of slack and be grateful for the pleasure he has given us with his engines over the last 45 years or so.

Peter James

 

There was an article in a recent issue Steam Railway magazine recently about John Cameron and his locos and I think they interviewed him. I haven't got the article in front of me but from what I recall it explained that Viscount Garnocks son offered to sell John Cameron the loco because he said he wasn't as interested in Steam locos as his father. Apparently the two families farms etc are next to each other, Check out the article as it had more details. It implied too that the name 'The Great marquess' was connected to Viscount Garnocks family and that is why it was originally purchased from BR.

It is sad that both locomotives will no longer run and be in a remote location. (It is a farm in the middle of nowhere), but it sounds like they will at least be undercover and looked after and the situation may change long term.

 

But with a measure of respect for the fact that a contract was agreed 20 odd years ago, and the the current Viscount may not have the motivation to get involved.

I'm with those that find this decision sad and to some extent hard to believe. I don't think, however, that heaping coals on the head of John Cameron is reasonable or appropriate; rather gratitude for the 20 years it has had, and regret that time is now being called.

 

The name refers to this gentleman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Graham,_1st_Marquess_of_Montrose

I dare say that he may have had some personal or family connection to the first Lord Downe of the present creation.

 

Nonsense! The NYMR made an offer to overhaul the engine but it would only have been able to use the engine until the A4 ticket ran out, so it didn't make economic sense.

Sawdust.

 

At the time the loco was for sale somebody connected to the NYMR wanted to buy it. If it were for sale he probably still would be.

Sawdust.

 

As other's have alluded to, that's certainly not how I remember this period in the locos history. As I recall, there were several interested parties, and it was widely reported at the time that WCRC were extremely keen to purchase the loco, primarily for use on "The Jacobite". I know that many enthusiasts felt at the time that JC was a risk, as he'd already suggested several times that he may call time on mainline running the A4 due to spiraling costs and his advancing years. While I am grateful for what he's done for this loco as custodian for the last 10+ years, it does seem as though those concerns when he purchased the loco are now becoming a reality.

 

If you know Torgomaig one thing that you'll also know is that when he says something like this, he is usually right.

 

There were other interested parties in 2003 equally keen and able to resource the overhaul. Perhaps the question about long term intentions was not asked but it does not seem unreasonable to believe that a purchaser other than JC might have accomplished same without a finite operational intention.
Grateful as I am for nearly a decade of operation, fourteen years of ownership ought not in my view to have generated enough authority to determine the fate of this unique historical artefact for generations to come. 60009 is a quite different proposition and all the plaudits for JC are well deserved, right to choose this fate very much earned several times over.