West Somerset Railway General Discussion

That's why we would have the detonators down, Fog and falling snow etc surprising how twisty the WSR is in places, never mind the odd bridge
Might even be dark

Pity the poor Fireman or Guard, Bardic in hand, waiting in the dark in the rain for the assisting engine to appear out of the night,

 

The rules change certainly. As an example between Pickering and Grosmont if there are two (or more) locos on a train the token goes with the rearmost locomotive, whereas on Network Rail between Grosmont and Whitby it goes on the leading loco. No chance for confusion there!

Peter James

 

At the moment we basically swap rulebooks at Grosmont. We are looking at some re-alignment of the NYMR rulebook at the moment which is leading to interesting discussion. For example, where is the token carried when there is more than one loco? On the NYMR it is on the rearmost loco. The big railway says on the leading loco but shown to the rear loco. Not too bad going to Whitby as the tokens are extracted from a machine on the platform so both drivers can be at the token instrument when it is withdrawn. However, on the NYMR, tokens are delivered on the move at signalboxes so a top'n'tailed train would have to stop, the signalman walk to the rear loco to show it, then walk back to the front and give it to the driver. A lot of time and shoe leather. The compromise is likely to be that it is carried on the leading loco and shown to both drivers of double headed trains but no need to show it to the driver of a loco assisting in the rear.

 

I always thought that the token had to be carried by the last loco in section?

 

West Somerset Railway - Then and Now #71

Williton 1910 / 2017

So as we move into the seventies in this series of photo pairs we shift scene to Williton. Brought into use as a passing place after the extension to Minehead, it is today still the principal crossing place on the Railway. It is possessed of a lovely group of historic buildings. Here the signal box, station building and wooden waiting shelter on the 'up' platform are visible. The footbridge, as we shall see, moves about a bit!

The station staff kindly posed for this photograph yesterday, to mark the start of the Williton section of these photos. Thanks chaps!

1910

2017

 

Depends on the rules in force. On the current SVR rulebook it's always carried on the leading loco, or the leading cab of an autotrain.

Edit: unless a failed train is being assisted, in which case it travels on the assisting loco.

 

Interesting to see the decorative gables have survived over 100 years unchanged.

 

WSR likewise - a fairly recent change.

 

2.3 If there is more than one locomotive or traction unit at the leading end of the train, the driver of the assisting locomotive must ensure he has seen the relevant token for the single line section concerned.
2.4 If there is a locomotive or traction unit assisting in the rear, it is not necessary for the Driver of that locomotive to be shown the token.

With token exchanges on the fly the leading crew hold the token up for the assisting crew to see when double headed. The onus is on the assisting driver to be satisfied the leading engine has the token, which is not difficult if you watch the exchange take place, at least not on a railway where the tokens are visibly different in colour and shape of centre hole in the token from section to section. Could be trickier with GWR style tablets.

 

Interesting....our rulebook is very similar, but in the event of a failed train being assisted the token must remain in the possession of the driver of the failed train until the whole of the train is removed from section (there being the possibility of course that it might have to be rescued in more than one go).

 

I thought you might be amused by the 'White' hall stand....

Robin

 

Love the collection especially the second from the left. If that’s a Signalman’s cap is the gold braid circle in the middle of the top a target for the Fireman to aim at when throwing him the token ?

 

Like the hoop-la at the village fete, you only win the prize if the hoop goes all the way to the ground.

Given my commitment to steak-and-kidney-pudding, that would be unlikely.

Robin

 

So which Rule Book is that lot from?

The first thing to point out is that the current NR rule book prohibits token exchanges "on the fly" as you call it

Secondly the idea that there might be a second driver on a train became irrelevant many years ago. This came about in the 1960s when, with dieselisation, it became common to operate locos in multiple. How is the signalman to know that the second loco is unmanned? So around 1970 the rules changed so that the driver on the leading loco - who is after all in charge of operating the train - became solely responsible for ensuring that he is carrying the token and that it is the correct one.

Surely the essence of any good rule book is "keep it as simple as possible" so why complicate things by having other drivers checking that the guy in front is doing his job correctly?

Peter James

 

There might be a rash of modern signage appearing lately but it seems - even on an "ordinary" working day - the WSR can put on something just a little special heritage-wise:

It seems like an all 'Great Western Day' on the West Somerset Railway on Saturday 23 September 2017. From the WSR's current steam fleet, nos 6960 Raveningham Hall, 7820 Dinmore Manor and 7822 Foxcote Manor will be in action. The Diesel & Electric Preservation Group's mighty diesel-hydraulic no D1010 Western Campaigner will operating on the 'Maybach Memories' services. And if that were not enough, an incoming charter travelling from Oxford to Minehead in the form of a High Speed Train courtesy of current train operators, GWR. Come and witness and travel behind a fine range of working Great Western designs, with the first three departures from Bishops Lydeard headed by appropriate and representative motive power from the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

( from WSR's FB page and news page of wsr.org.uk )

The first three departures from Bishops Lydeard expected to be 6960 (10.20am), then D1010 (11.05am), then the GWR HST special (11.50am). The fourth should be 7820 (12.40pm). 7822 is on Steam Engineman course duties. That webcam will be a tad busier on Sat morn, methinks.

Steve

 

Indeed its all too easy to take what we now have for granted. Imagine the thoughts of the early WSR volunteers hearing about a day like that on their railway in 2017!!!

 

Indeed - in fact I had that exact thought when writing the piece, remembering many chats with Davie Rouse after he'd expertly succeeded against the odds to get a Bagnall tank plus four over the hills whilst I watched from the comfort of the Guard's van, both of us always wondering if we'd get back

I gather we might also see a Hymek later on Saturday...

Steve

 

That intrigues me, because if of the failed train has to be removed from the Section section in multiple portions, surely it will not be the failed loco that needs the token in order to go back and collect the other portion(s)?

 

Well said Steve & 1472, as a newbie of only 3 years on the WSR it’s easy to get complacent about the effort put in before my time by others and of how successful the WSR actually is. In my time in training and since becoming a Passed Cleaner I’ve have the privilege of firing 17 different engines, I will be on my 3rd different Manor on Saturday (7822 on the SEC course). As a lifetime S&D fan I’ve fired both 7F’s (lots), 4F, West Country, 8F, double headed 7F’s, 7F/4F, West Country/7F. A number of times the WSR has had both 7F’s and the 4F running service trains just on normal mid-week services and nobody blinks an eye as its normal! But of course for me a 7F pulling 7/8 Coaches on a service train up those hills is wonderful and something I’ve only previously seen in Black & White photos from the 1950’s.

I’m even beginning to really like GWR engines in a major way (don’t let some in the shed at MD hear me say that!) and have had a couple of goes on Diesels which makes a nice change.

As for engines visiting the line I’ve lost count and again it’s easy to get complacent about the numbers that come in on charters or as Gala Visitors that we can get to see close up.

Don’t get me wrong it’s tough to get passed out on the WSR, the standards are high and getting higher and you have to be focused to make the grade but the people who got the WSR to this point no-doubt worked an awful lot harder to build the railway as well as run it. I now try and remember that before I pitch in with a moan or a whine about something that isn’t quite perfect. So roll on 2018 and an S160 with a military train, I have military vehicle owners and re-enactors I know very keen on being on it !!!