West Somerset Railway General Discussion

OK, so 553 to 903 by your calculations, an increase by a factor of 1.6. So more than one and a half times as much water required.

A correspondent also makes the following points about water at Williton, which no longer apply:

'Water at Williton. Stopping trains were much lighter being only 2, 3 or 4 28 ton coaches and could take a run at hills such as Washford bank. The heavier trains were generally non-stop and would not have taken water at Williton. Records show that Williton was important for two reasons:-

Trains to/from Watchet docks/paper mill needed water at the start end of their journey.

Water at Minehead came from the town mains and was costly, Williton was on an extraction licence via the filterbed (not a well) from the Monksilver stream. Crews were instructed not to take water at Minehead if Williton was available to them.

Today the need for trains to take water at Williton is very rare, and few of our drivers could reliably stop a 7 coach train and tank engine smoothly & accurately at a water crane. An extra 5 (or 10) minutes would need to be put into timetables to allow for the possibility that the loco may need water. John Green was the one driver who would never pass water, needed or not!'

 

West Somerset Railway - Then and Now #76

Williton 1966 / 2017

Once again looking down from the road bridge as DMU's pass. This must have been just after dieselisation as the steam facilities are still
In place. A good crowd of folk are catching the Taunton-bound unit.

Strange to think that 5 years after this shot the line would be shut and 10 years after it would be open as a heritage railway. The lattice footbridge would not live to see that, however. One would have to be sourced from Trowbridge instead.

1966


2017

 

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This argument about locos needing more water because they are going faster is fundamentally flawed. Because they are going faster, they use more water per unit time but the water used to get from A to B is going to be more or less the same, whatever the speed. Yes, there will be slight variation due to varying factors but nothing significant.

As for stopping at water columns, you either have a poor opinion of your drivers or they are genuinely poor. Perhaps it's that GWR brake that's the problem! Most down arrivals in platform 2 at Grosmont 'stop for water' and it is very rare for a driver to over or undershoot the column.

 

Thanks Ian, that's much appreciated. Heading up to Lydeard shortly so I'll hopefully see that before the service trains start.

 

Surprised you think you need an extra ten minutes to take water. The thing that takes time is trying to absolutely maximise the water you take in a tank engine, i.e. the last few gallons, since you have to wait for the water to balance and then dribble the last bit in slowly. By contrast, if you just want to top up and aren't fussed about the last few tens of gallons, you can fill up as fast as the delivery allows. If you stop on the column, a tank engine could take a worthwhile amount in less than the time it takes the platform staff to check the train for departure. (As an example, we have fifteen minutes to run round at East Grinstead, including two sets of coupling /uncoupling; three loco movements comprising the length of the station and the loco crew changing the points at both ends: tank engines will routinely take water in that time and there is never much issue with time. So ten minutes just to take water when you have stopped on a column and have nothing else to do seems inordinately generous).

Tom

 

That can't be right. Distance is a linear function but energy varies as to the Square of speed, and water (steam) is the energy transfer method, so more water must be used per unit distance if the loco goes faster.

Robin

 

Flow rate does seem to vary. The column at Rolvenden always seems to me to be rather slow. Five minutes for a tank loco, but filling the Norwegian's tender takes so long there's normally time for the third man to bring more coal forward while waiting.

 

In the past, late running could be eaten away by faster runners no between stations but these days the 25mph limit is more carefully adhered to. That means that the best opportunity to make up time is smart station working. Introducing the opportunity to lose time at intermediate stations is not a good idea.

Adequate servicing time at terminii when the loco is free of its train is, operationally, most sensible.

Robin

 

Have you got a picture up your sleeve from the other end of the station Robin? I can't quite get a handle on how the largest building ties in with the station. Keep em coming!

 

WSR drivers would be dismayed by the comment Robin made & the skill level to stop right for water with a train is certainly there. I know the comment was made tongue in cheek but down this way many prefer the GWR brake - it actually gives better control when you are used to it!

Providing the flow is there its quite possible to take a useful quantity of water in 3 minutes.

 

When you see Richard Jones again, ask him about the time I was on with him(the last time actually) on a 45 tank . Was an entirely unforeseen circumstance in that we ran out of water just before Crowcombe. We should have took water at Willoton from the emergency tank but didn't. A bad & regrettable decision. If there was a column as before I'd say we would definitely had some.

 

It's not my comment. You will see that I quote it. It is from a WSR Engineman - who presumably doesn't want to be torn limb from limb by their fellow Engineman.

Robin

 

Plenty more to come from Williton.

I'll see if I can put up a ground plan tomorrow for those who don't know the station well.

Robin

 

Gallows being erected as we speak.................

 

Isn't Williton your main crossing station? So presumably in one direction at least, a train is likely to be stopped for five or six minutes to allow the other to arrive, and the necessary signal box work? Plenty of time for water if available from the platform, surely?

Tom

 

I can neither confirm nor deny the abilities of WSR drivers but can't resist pointing out what I observed recently at Swanage. Train arrives and stops in such a position that, after the loco has run round and coupled at the other end, it is accurately positioned beside the water crane. I did ask how they manage it and was told that it's by markings on the platform.

 

But equally a good opportunity to make up time of that 5 minutes is reduced to platform working only.

And water at MD and BL seems to work fine 99.9999% of the time.

Over quite a number of shifts as line controller the only 'out of water' incident I have ever dealt with was the Pacific that got to Blue Anchor at a Gala having forgotten to water at Minehead......

Robin

 

What, a forgetful locomotive? That sounds like one of the Rev. Awdry's incidents.

 

Ohh, the indignity!