Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Mark,

The same figures are quoted on the L&B pages too so I doubt they're wrong.

I don't believe that the firebox end of Lyd's boiler is noticably heavier than the barrel end, especially when you consider the volume of material in the tubes alone and that there's a big empty space at the firebox end. The cylinders and valve gear however do add a significant amount of weight to the front end and likewise there's a lot of empty space at the firebox end (where its hard to add weight) when the published axle loadings are taken into account this is hard to argue.

The water space sits evenly over the driving wheels to keep the mass as best as possible where you want it for adhesion purposes, and so as not to unbalance an engine with fluctuating gradients. The mass of the water is not being used to counter any weight at the back end, particularly given the fluctuation of water levels and the effect of the moving water in conjunction with any steep gradients.

I can understand counterweights being used on the England's on the basis that there is such a large overhang proportionally and that there's no trailing truck to help provide stability. However the MW's have a lot more support and ability to manage the axle loading with the provision of the trailing truck.

Ideally based on the published axle loadings, you'd want to take 0.5t off the leading driver and reapportion it to the rear driver, this would allow a further 0.5t to be taken off the rear trailing truck that is currently being used to counter balance the front end and reapportioned to the rear driver. But as said, it's very hard to add weight around the firebox.

I've done a quick google of images of Lyd during build and the bare metal show's that the cab floor and side sheets is indeed steel rather than Aluminium, which as discussed, makes sense due to the reactive nature of the two materials.

Regards

Paul

 

Is that still the plan, incidentally? There's been no mention of it (that I've seen) for quite some time now...

 

Paul Lewin mentioned it a few days ago on one of the Farcebook sites, not forgotten just not done yet.

 

To be fair to Blodge, there's a fair bit cooking at the mo. what with Pony, JSII, The Alco, Blanche, end of season servicing etc. etc.

 

Don't expect the Barge to move to the workshop anytime soon, there simply is not enough work for her on the FR to warrant a rebuild.

Speaking to both Paul and Jon at Woody Bay over the weekend, the next loco on the list to get done will be the replacement Fairlie.

 

If the Ffestiniog don't want it the Barge would probably be a very capable loco for the L&B. Though I think there was a condition about it staying on the FR when they were given it.

 

Well one does have to wonder if maybe they should reconsder the agreement, for if Lyd is not so popular there on the FR, then you can't help but worry it'll recieve little attention or use in general. Plus what with the new Farlie AND Welsh Pony fast on the horizon, you got to wonder, do they REALLY need Lyd about?

 

To avoid possible further confusion 'Barge' is a FR nickname for their AlCo 'Mountaineer'.

 

The agreement was that the Alco was given to the FR but at the end of it's working life it is to be put on display and not disposed of without agreement of it's original owner, think I've remembered that right.
I suppose end of working life effectively means unrepairable which at present is not actually known, however it was moved to Boston Lodge for evaluation so could go either way.

 

Yes I got the impression that to get Mountaineer (the Barge) working again requires a sensible working plan to be drawn up, some one to lead the volunteer effort and then someone else to raise the cash required. It could be done but as has been said before Blodge has a lot to do before it can give any room for Mountaineer.

As for LYD moving on? forget it. It is one of those locos that is required by the FR as one of its medium size locos, In time the FR will be running three Double Fairlie's (and who knows may be even a forth double Fairlie may be required at some point) also LYD is a newer loco that Mountaineer and in theory will not need as much heavy work being done to her at this stage.

To be fair to the FR once all the Fairlie's are up and running there will be very little work for other locos, what with the Chinese loco, LYD, Taliesin, the two lady class locos and Mountaineer they don't have enough work for all those locos at the shoulder points of the season, I have even been told that those shoulder weeks are getting smaller each year with the requirements to run the longer and heavier train sets much more.

The only solution to this is to run double headed trains, but then you come up against the problem of having enough footplate crew available to be able to do this. The same thing will happen in time with the L&BR, but like so many things in the pipeline we are only now beginning to discuss this.

The idea of Mountaineer going to the L&BR has some appeal from me at least, but as has been said there are a number of issues that need to be address first of all and as much as I would like to say so this and other forums are not the place to come to an agreement about the future of any one steam loco, what I say is my own ideas and wishes, they do not have any official backing from either the FR or the L&BR, but if such an arrangement could be made to work it would have my blessing that is for sure.

 

Why wouldn't a long term loan of Mountaineer to the L & B be possible? I would be surprised if that wasn't acceptable to the person who donated it to the FR. Better for it to be kept working than in a museum.

 

If the L&B need to acquire additional motive power it goes without saying that needs to be in ticket and actually working, which rules out Mountaineer.
For all we know they may have the spare loco issue covered anyway.

 

I don't think anyone's talking about the near future but just idly thinking long term.

 

Any loco like Mountaineer would need money spend on it, it could be said that why spend that sort of money on a loco when you could spend it on part of a new build project? The L&BRT are hoping to built two Manning Wardles next, but before that happens, there is still a lot to be done else where, this is not official, but I get the impression that the plan is to have the railway running to Blackmoor inside of ten years or less.

Beside locos and more carriages that need's to be built, you also have all that civil engineering to be done, tie up any legal loose ends, a new road bridge and public crossing at Blackmoor, rebuild the Parracombe embankment and I am sure there will be many other things which I have not mention that also need to be addressed.

There is a lot going on in North Devon and I had a very good chat with James Evans who built LYD about his new steam locomotive project, I have to admit that it would be great to see one of these built for the L&BR, but James thinks that it will need to be funded by commercial sponsorship and other means so it does not take money away from the Manning Wardle Project.

I don't think it would hurt the L&BR to have say six or seven steam locomotives to call on and it could be a good mix of old and new as well.

The plans that where on display at Woody Bay where impressive, but personally those for the proposals at the Blackmoor stationsite don't hit spot for me, to me they did not enhance the old station building in anyway, they could do with a bit of Frank Lloyd Wright's touch of his masterpiece Fallingwater added into the mix and it could look a 100% better in my opinion, plus it would have that Southern Railways Art Deco appeal as well.

As they say onwards and upwards.

 

Falling Water? Art Deco stations? I think Mrs G. Might have something to say about that! As for BG, my plan would have been to replicate the pilton layout, on the s-curve as the track rejoins the original route on the Barnstaple end of the station. The siding and buildings could then have been a fair facsimile of the original, in a similar alignment to the mainline - even incorporating the original turntable - and the site would be outside ENP, but that's just me!

 

Hopefully she who should not be named will have gone the same way as her male counterpart be the time the plans are finalised for BG I am sure they where only the start of the process, the main reason why I like Fallingwater for it use of natural stone, I don't mind the use of concrete either but at BG I think we should use not quiet as much and I would like to get rid of all those extensions to show off the original building and then rebuild the restaurant part with material that blends in with the old station.

 

I'm trying to think of ways that something like Fallingwater would work at Blackmoor Gate, but to be honest I'm a bit stumped. the topography is unsympathetic, there is the lack of an appropriate watercourse, I cannot see how you could possibly run a railway through such a split level arrangement, add to that it's completely unsuitable style of building for a Victorian narrow gauge railway on the fringes of Exmoor.
Don't get me wrong though- I do sympathize with originality. some years ago for the Bluebells northern extension I came up with a proposal for a Southern-Electric style art deco station at East Grinstead, but for one reason and another, mainly cost, and also Network Rail's access requirements it never happened. What the Bluebell are stuck with at EG now is really lamentable, and symptomatic of lack of forward planning, but hey ho.

 

Hi Mark, I get what you are saying about Fallingwater for me it is more about the use of stone as a traditional the building material than anything else, may it isn't such a good example, but the idea of building a new extension to be sympathetic to the old station building is something we should at least look at, OK it might cost a bit more now, but if it lasts as long as the old station then it has to be a winner. This is not the place to build an extension that you know will only last 40 or 50 years and will have to be pulled down again and rebuild, I can understand the building philosophy of today, but something like this needs a different approach to the problem, call me a traditionalist if you like, but this is one place where we can and in my opinion should be using traditional building methods and designs where possible.

I know the Trust could go and get a prefab flat pack building to assemble on site and it would cost far less and be much quicker in achieving a building to earn money for the whole project, I do understand that, but in this case quality really does matter. I also realise that before you could build an extension you need to have detailed planning permission for something like this, if this sort of new build extension could replace the existing tired wooden extension structure which currently sits in front of the old building, then it has to be a good thing.

Blackmoor station is a great location and it needs money spent on it to bring it up to if you like modern restaurant standards, the interior decor could do with a make over to start with, having false internal roof beams just does not suit the location at all, while it is great to see all the photos of the L&BR all over the place, I think that needs to change and an introduction of other railway artifacts would be just as improvement, such as a couple of signal arms and station running in name boards as examples. Also there must be someway you could use locomotive oil lamps to light up certain areas of the building as well.

Just to give it that edge why not include a bit of steam punk/Art Deco in the furniture itself, I think that might work as well, obviously all these ideas need to be discussed, may be we should ask the guys who do all the Wetherspoons pub interiors to come up with an idea or two, I bet they could come up with some thing that would work very well.

One thing is for sure the rebuilding of Blackmoor is going to extend this thread by a few more pages. but nothing is going to happen until the Blackmoor Restaurant Company has first raise the money to buy the place so if anyone is interested you can sign up here:- http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/