GWSR Broadway Developments

Err, I don't think I indicated that it provided a sound business case on its own - it was just one more "reason[] for having a connection".

That's an assumption (that the trains would be someone else's) that I'm not sure is warranted. If I were doing the deal for the GWSR (which of course I am not) I'd want to see something that is better for the GWSR.

Noel

 

Well, it's still "our" train, but we hire the whole train to the excursion company, and it's them that sell the tickets, we sell the drinks etc. directly on the train.
Oh, and the 2 days in November barely fill one train, but there are waiting lists for all four days in March so scope for moving more people then (CRC P2 will help with this).

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Indeed - thats why I said earlier that it was 4 days.

 

The original route through Cheltenham is still basically there, Last time I walked it was about 10 years ago. However about 12 years ago the St James Station site was sold off and there is now a supermarket there. An original railway bridge was then removed (which would be needed) and replaced with just a footbridge and another one which carried a road going over the top of the railway was rebuild as a smaller foot underpass instead of the original where the railway went under the road. So potentially there is a way still through but it would be expensive to do. The St James station was a separate offshoot intended for trains going south not north so wouldn't be suitable or needed anyway. I can image there might be people who would oppose it too.

However in my opinion a much more realistic and good option would be to go as far as the old Cheltenham high street station which would avoid the above (as it comes further south). The high street station is as it says right on the high street and more or less in the centre of Cheltenham. The station was originally on the top of the embankment and the classic GWR Chinese style pagoda halt (see below for what is looked like) . There is even a railmotor like the one at Didcot in the picture. In my opinion this is doable and passengers would be able to get off in the center of Cheltenham. The racecourse station in comparison is in the middle of nowhere and other than the racecourse there is nothing there. There wouldn't be a lot of room at the high street station so it would have to be similar to how it was with probably just a platform and runaround loop.

I have no idea if the local councils would support such a scheme but it would probably have to be heavy promoted as a park and ride type scheme. They did at one time I believe look at a 'guided busway' along the route.

 

A interesting photograph and I recall seeing the narrow bricked up entrance ways in the High St bridge abutments.
It is stretching things a bit to suggest that this is in the middle of Cheltenham assuming that was defined as the Promenade & main shopping/theatre area.
There is also no car parking other than on street side roads in this area and a pretty substantial maintenance liability for all the retaining walls and bridges on this section. These have probably seen little attention since the BR closure.

But it is a lot closer to the centre than CRC.

 

If you follow this link in googlemaps and follow the route you can see that just one bridge over a small road is missing between the high street station and racecourse, follow the route along to the right and you get to racecourse. Follow the route to the left and you can see the big footbridge and where it originally joined at Cheltenham Spa station (seems to be a gym built over the part where it joined at Cheltenham Spa. The link at the start is roughly where the highstreet station was.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...541f9e020!8m2!3d51.8993855!4d-2.0782533?hl=en

 

I walked the old route a couple of years ago, and put the photographs here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/73536293@N02/albums/72157632569562864

On the same site you can see photographs of walks along the rest of the unrestored route.

 

I have it on very good authority from a long serving member of the GWSR board, who I have known personally for many years, that an extension southwards from Hunting Butts Tunnel is not going to happen. Now, whilst directors of railways may change, and therefore so might policy, it should be noted that there are serious landfill issues south of Hunting Butts and the good people of Cheltenham (the Council at any rate) have never been keen on the railway venturing back into the town, if they had been they would have mothballed the trackbed & structures. (The Racecourse organisation was totally different and has always been most supportive of the GWSR).

 

In the "Last Mile" prospectus, the GWSR chairman states "we are working on opportunities to extend further south into Cheltenham as well as the longer term possibility of extending north to Honeybourne". Sounds like it has not been ruled out?

 

I think they should go for high street station as the next goal after Broadway. If they leave it another decade or two it will become too late as inevitably more and more of the trackbed will get lost and instead of providing a proper run into Cheltenham itself they will be forever stuck on the outskirts surrounded by fields and the racecourse. Already infrastructure has been lost in the last 15 years or so which if they had been more vocal about it might not have happened or at least more provision would have been made for returning the railway. Look at the picture below and the red circles. It is not even that far, maybe 3 miles ?

 

It was very much on the agenda just a year or so ago to go as far as Prince of Wales stadium? Will send a PM.

Yes there are expensive obstacles for Cheltenham, but Honeybourne's not exactly cheap either, last I heard £12 million, up from estimated £10 million when I originally joined 5 years ago or so, estimates may have gone up even more since.

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Indeed, which probably explains why it was closed as long ago as 1917.

I am wondering why the bridges weren't all removed or replaced by minimal footbridges after the line was closed. Granted that would have cost some money, but so does maintaining them even if only for pedestrian use -- and dealing with bridge strikes. Google Streetview shows clear evidence of a significant strike to the one over the High Street: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.9...4!1srJC__acE1TDnl8bcdvFK0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

It's already too late, but more importantly, your proposal assumes that the local authorities want the GWSR to come further south. They have never been keen. There is also far more risk of vandalism. Now council policies can change but the biggest issue is financial outlay (v a return on investment). Interest rates are shortly set to rise and inflation is a constant worry. The Broadway extension will continue to cost the GWSR for some time (the station won't be complete next year) and, as I've said so often in the past, the time to have secured the southern route was back in 1979-80 when the GWSR had little money and the local authority didn't want the railway within the "town boundary." I only wish it were not so, believe me. Referring to FS123's post regarding the POW Stadium proposal, this might still be possible (the stadium is easily seen on your aerial image) but would still require the necessary massive funding and local authority permissions/conditions.

 

I've queried this figure before but got no explanation.
There is only one bridge that may require work, the others being overbridges and therefore, AIUI, the responsibility of the roading authorities. The station and trackwork is already in place at Honeybourne, there is no particular need for intervening stations (although Halts could be added later if warranted) , and the track is mainly on the level or in cuttings, so no major problems with embankments. Going by the costs of the Broadway extension I'd have thought a maximum of a couple of million should cover it. Where is the cost that I'm overlooking ?

 

I'm afraid I can't answer that question, other than I understand it to be about £1 million a mile for the track, ballast, clearance etc. plus whatever extortionate amount of money network rail fancies extracting from us for a mainline connection.

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If I resume well extensions to Honey bourne and(or) Cheltenham (centrum) are , now, quite unfeasible impossible
so Broadwy would be the ultimate extension and the end of world" for ever!sad indeed!

 

Well, it's almost exactly four miles, and the mainline connection already exists, so that would add up to about £4 million. It still seems excessive but it certainly wouldn't come anywhere near the £12 million you mention. I suspect, pending further clarification, that somebody is providing you with misinformation in order to discourage any thought of connecting to Honeybourne.
It may, indeed, not be a viable project but that decision should be made on the basis of a proper costing set against potential earnings (if any ) . I'll look forward to seeing them once we are finished at Broadway.

Mike

 

Well, nothing's ever impossible when it comes to heritage railways, the movement has proved that time and time again.
I should also point out I'm only in favour of a Cheltenham extension over a Honeybourne one, personally I don't really see a need for either, CRC to Broadway is enough.

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You may well be right, there's little in the way of facts when it comes to both directions, they all seem to be rumours and things I've heard on the platform from various senior and not so senior members of staff.

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