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35018 British India Line

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 34014, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. Groks212

    Groks212 Member

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    On page 5 of that letter you will find this: In relation to the number of steam coaches being used, WCRC acknowledged that this was discussed with ORR during the first revocation notice period. This issue is being discussed at a Steam Forum, which ORR and WCRC are attending in order to establish an industry line.

    Dave B
     
  2. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    It certainly sounds like the coach number limit has been relaxed somewhat, with 46115 and 48151 regularly taking 13 over the S&C this Summer and Leander taking 12 over Shap unassisted also.

    Is load 13 for Galatea on the Lune return a preservation era load recored for a Jubilee unassisted?
     
  3. summerof67

    summerof67 New Member

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    I have experience, yes. The heavier the load, the more likely of a strain on bearings.
     
  4. summerof67

    summerof67 New Member

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    Thanks for that quote. This is proof.
     
  5. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think you will find 'This is sarcasm'?
     
  6. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Try this. Skip to York.
     
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  7. NSWGR 3827

    NSWGR 3827 New Member

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    Yes I did read it all.
    We know from the ORR letter they were concerned about trains longer than 10 and WCRC had agreed to limit train length to 10 Cars, which the ORR Letter says they breached between the Bans.
    A lot is known about why they were originally banned, not what if any conditions were imposed prior to allowing them to resume (unable to find anything with a quick google search), however I have recollections of hearing something like they will be 'closely monitored'.
     
  8. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I think this 'new member' is getting exactly the reaction he set out to create...time to stop feeding?
     
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  9. NSWGR 3827

    NSWGR 3827 New Member

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    That's a big knock! and at least sounds quite serious.
     
  10. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Indeed, although also possibly a time to check IP addresses? :rolleyes:
     
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  11. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Yes sarcasm indeed hence the wink At the time of writing I don't have access to video so who knows. but whether that knock was audible on the footplate when not coasting... or when it occurred (did she get opened up on the fast stretch from Leeds perhaps ? ) from Hellifield onwards the line is, on average down hill with very little adverse gradient so no doubt a five could have taken thirteen on a 50mph path without being worked too hard...
     
  12. MikeParkin65

    MikeParkin65 Member Friend

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    35018 was apparently losing steam from the right hand cylinder from early in the trip and others have commented that the beat sounded 'off'. Assuming the cylinder losing steam was making less power than the two cylinders that were steam tight would this put the engine 'out of balance' and so contribute to a bearing failure? I claim no knowledge so am just asking the question to those better versed in these things than myself.
     
  13. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    How unusual, Cagney & Lacey on patrol
     
  14. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Firstly the size of load here without a context is a red herring here, the amount of effort being put in to move the train is the key variable ... accelerating 9 up a 1 in 60 needs a lot more effort than coasting 13 down a 1 in 200. The insinuation that BIL was thrashed prematurely isn't borne out by what ive seen
    Learned commentators have already identified that steam was more than likely being lost at a point before the steamchest. Whether the leak here would have an effect on steam chest pressure ... well its letting less out than a drain cock so probably not. The beat sounds fairly even to me but there is no doubt a roughness to the sound.
    Am afraid that only the combined input of what the footplate crew experienced (and when) and what the engineers find when they complete their examination truly has a bearing (see what I did there...)
     
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  15. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Very unlikely what makes a white metal bearing fail? 1 a fault in the white metal, 2 lack of lubrication . 3foreign matter in the housing
    1 In this case the white metal begins to break up and separates from the actual bearing this is sometimes due to impurities in the white metal
    2 if something blocks or reduces the flow of oil into the bearing it will run hot a bearing needs a constant metered flow of lubricating oil normally through a wick or trimming if a pot contains water and its not siphoned out , you may think you have a full pot and its mostly water not oil it boils, bearing is not getting lubricted it melts in most cases a hot bearing is down to lack of lubricating oil , whilst i don't know the causes of 35018's failure i would say this is the most likeliest cause.
    3 foreign matter this could be dirt in the oil, slithers of metal a broken bit of white metal, anything that will lodge in the surface and grind out the white metal until the bearing fails, all it takes is for something to block the entry hole stopping the oil and your bearing is toast.
    I don't think cylinder variation will effect it ,the steam leak i dont think caused the bearing to fail as there is no free fore and aft motion at the bearing end and becides with no pressure or low pressure in a cylinder wouldnt you completly lose the third beat ?
     
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  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I have been told that it was No 2 on this list that caused the problem.
     
  17. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    i can remember such a problem on Bodmin, It was failed with a hot middle big end bearing on MHR , i was in the crew that had to take the rod down the day after and when we looked at it the metal had run we found that the delivery hole through which oil feds the bearing was blocked ,After we had re-metaled and machined the bearing we had to re fit it, refill it we test ran it the next day and all was fine, to this day we don't know exactly what caused it, i suspect oil contamination wrong grade oil etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  18. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

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    4 Clearance too small. If the engine is working harder than previously the bearing temperature would have become higher and this will tend to reduce the clearance to the point where it is insufficient and the lubrication film breaks down. This is the type of problem that can occur on a recently overhauled engine. For all types of machinery failures there is a bathtup curve effect, more failures early and late in "life".
     
  19. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    We don't need too we already know who it's is ;)
     
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  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Surely thats more to do with the flow rate of the lubrication the clearance should remain constant its the heat generated then dissipated by the oil that not just lubricates but cools the bearing, also increassing or detracting the tails of the wick should increase or decrease the flow rate .
     

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