Narrow Gauge New Builds

Swiss, not German

 

Maybe I'm a traditionalist and like the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) principle so don't think that external or immersion heaters are necessarily the way to go. We all agree that repeated heating and cooling cycles are bad for boilers and in 'the old days' locos were kept continuously hot between washouts/inspections. Even today the locos on the Cumbres and Toltec are kept in steam 24/7 throughout the season with a 'hostler' in attendance overnight. On the Isle of Man Rly. a small warming fire is left in (as I suspect happens on other preserved lines) so that there is less thermal shock to the boiler and preparation time is reduced. On the BRB in Switzerland the newer one man operated SLM locos mentioned above are diesel oil fired so it would, I assume, not have been difficult to just leave the pilot burner on rather than have the complication of immersion heaters but maybe HEP is cheaper!
Ray.

 

Mountain railways attract a different kind of tourist though, those for whom the aim is to get to the top of the mountain and enjoy the scenery rather than necessarily wallowing in tradition and nostalgia. Hence the modern steam on the Rothorn and the diesels on Snowdon. I'm not personally convinced this is what the public on more conventional railways wants.

(PS: On a purely selfish note I would love to see a working Kitson-Meyer, never having done so.)


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Hi pmh there is one here http://www.martynbane.co.uk/modernsteam/klr/hawk.htm, I haven't been but it is somewhere to go next year.

 

Sorry I got that wrong

 

One advantage to the system I am proposing is that A) you don't need anyone to be there and B) with thermostats you can control the overall temperature of the circulating water, it would be possible that lets say about an hour before anyone turns up the temperature of the boiler water is increased to just under boiling point, then when someone is on site it would then be possible to pressurize the boiler to say 8 or 9 bar (125Ibs psi) and let the fire take over the warming and pressurization process.

Of course this is mostly all theory so until it gets worked out in practice it is not going anywhere.

 

.... as indeed it won't without some serious money!

 

More likely to get a total ban on coal or burning anything else due to the global warming issue before any of this is likely to happen on a heritage line.

 

Unfortunately, I wouldn't bet against that!

 

The crazy thing about banning coal burning is we have more of that under our feet than we will ever use, It would not surprise me if in time someone finds a way to use coal in a new way.

As for banning steam locos I don't think that will happen it is to useful a source of cheap power, the amount of steam locos in use around the World doesn't even come anywhere near to the thousands we had in this country at the height of steam power on BR. So I suspect the amount of damages these will do is going to be less than 1% of the total of Green house gases.

 

With you on quantity of grenhouse gases from steam locos, though I'd put the figure less than 0.001% of totals. I think cement manufacture and cattle farts probably head up the list of offenders.

Totals from steam loco use are insignificant in the scheme of things, but being very visible they're an obvious target. My own guess is it'll be tax that kills coal as a viable fuel. I've noted young kids frequently commenting unprompted on smokey exhausts. While soot particulates aren't the worst 'nasty', they're certainly one sproggits seem very aware of these days.

There may one day be some practical means of carbon capture developed which may work (at a price!) for power station sized installations, but even if someone were to cook one up, I can't imagine it being something which either could ever be inconspicuously retrofitted to steam locos, or be one that anyone want want to see tacked onto a loco.

My suspicion remains that torrified biofuels will be the most viable source for steam locos. Whatever happens, there are potential problems looming, but ..... when aren't there?

 

biofuels are grown on land that could be used to grow food thus pushing the price of staple foods up, poor people starve. This has already happened. Coal will always be available. There are many small operations along the north crop of the south Wales coal field mining high grade coal from drifts. Maybe the heritage rail community could invest in a coal mine?

 

The thought of our heritage sector coming together to reopen a pit known for cleaner burning and consistant good quality coal crossed my mind too. No mining expert, me but every time I've asked, the issue which gets thrown up is the problem of pumping out deep level pits which have stood idle for decades. Sounds like it's not as straightforward as we may think!

If talking about bio diesel and the like, you're perfectly correct about land resource and I'm four-square with you on this. It's the precise reason that along with many others, I've consistantly opposed bio-diesel. Torrified biofuels though are a different kettle of fish and a product of managed woodlands rather than prime agricultural land.

This isn't the place to go into the matter in more depth and I'd emphasise it's all still a learning curve, but the signs look very promising and it may prove the best option for steam into the future. It may prove to be something which needs it's own thread somewhere ...... wherever we chat about coal or oil as fuel.

 

Indeed there is but I have to confess that since anything below 2' gauge is generally considered a miniature railway and usually built for jollification rather than serious transport purposes, that's pretty much the lower limit of my interest.


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Genrally ... but our own NP Forum says 'Think 15" gauge and over" .... except that the Groudle Glen (2'-0") was promoted - and to this day, pretty much operates - as a miniature railway!

Methinks the existence of trains running to a published timetable (Romney, La'al Ratty) is a key consideration. Even then, the Fairbourne (121/4") and Wells & Walsingham (101/4") both meet this criterion, unlike the Brighton Mainline for much of the past year!!

Volk's Electric (2'-81/2") has never seen a whiff of steam and even whether it actually runs 'trains' as such is questionable ("First/Last Car/Service" tends to be the terminology used) and was clearly built for amusement as much as transport (which it falls an irritatingly few yards short of doing at either end!). Plus ... does the Seaton Tramway even qualify for a mention on NP? (That at least was actually an honest question).

And should we just steer well clear of the other L&B (the Listowel and Ballybunion)? Definitely ran on rails (plural ... it had guide rails), operated to a timetable, was a common carrier and recreated stock can be experienced once more, albeit a short demonstration line. I'd like to think having the UK & Ireland's only 0-3-0 locos (larger than a knackered Hornby tinplate!) qualifies it in some wierd way.

As @pmh_74 said .... Generally !

Sorry, but some smart**se was always bound to say it!

 

The biggest problem when it comes to extracting coal for all the heritage railways is that is even if you put them all together, the mining operation would only be for one or two days a year at the most, so commercial it is a non starter, lets just hope the new big open cast pit in south wales (i can't for the life of me think of its name) remains open for a long time, the other big thing for steam locos is that coal needs washing and once again for just a few days year I can't see anyone wanting to make that a commercial realty.

The other thing is that while a lot of people don't like it and that is we start to use the Polish brown coal again, hence the reason for a big firebox so you can burn just about any old rubbish in there as it all comes down to the calorific value you can get out of your fuel.

 

There are large reserves of coal under the North Sea Sea and off the coast off the Welsh coast http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/now-king-coal-set-rule-6923421
however there is also a diabolical plan to set fire to it to create gas.

 

The WW&F in Maine have launched an appeal for funds to build a new 2-4-4T Forney locomotive for their line.
Details here..
https://fundrazr.com/build11.2020?ref=ab_A1xplkrPtyyA1xplkrPtyy

 

Perhaps scope for a spot of mutual transatlantic back scratching?
https://www.bmr.wales/about-bmr/our-locomotives/No4-forney-type

 

Sorry I am late to the party but I have a soft spot for Bagnall locomotives. My particular favourite is their Cape Government Railway 4-6-2T
CGR_4-6-2T_1908 by Mwmbwls, on Flickr An engine of this size would not fit on the tighter loading gauge lines but could work on the standard to narrow gauge conversions.