Bluebell Railway General Discussion

That is a superb film, absolutely fascinating.
However, I do worry when railways have to start asking for donations for routine things such as track replacement. I understand that this may still be an effect of all hands to the pump for the extension and recognise the need for that in the bluebell's particular case with waste disposal taxes etc. but still, a little worrying.

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Up to a point, though I'm not sure why having a fund raising appeal to repair life-expired infrastructure should attract more criticism than doing the same to repair life-expired motive power or rolling stock, as is completely routine (and uncontroversial) elsewhere?

Tom

 

"All hands to the pump for the extension" is certainly part of the reason, but by no means all.
Remember that the Bluebell was the first in the field! Apart from BR re laying a few sections with concrete sleepers in the late 40s /early 50s, most of the permanent way that the Bluebell inherited will have probably dated from between the wars, and quite likely in some shape or form that is still being used between Sheffield park and Horsted Keynes today.
During relaying work at Sheffield Park, one of the rails recovered was found to bear the date "Dowlais 1910".
So this is the sort of stuff that has been coaxed and nurtured through 57 years of Bluebell ownership. no mean feat. Hardly surprising then that it is all starting to go home with a vengeance now. If you'd watch the film you would have seen it explained how expensive permanent way replacement is, and obviously this can't be funded by ordinary ticket revenue hence the appeal- this really isn't rocket science.

 

Nevertheless, @flying scotsman123 is right to be concerned.

PH

 

Frankly amazed that there has not been ongoing rolling replacement over the 57 years.

 

I'd be equally uncomfortable seeing appeals for routine refurbishment of rolling stock, which to my mind is separate to the lovely restoration jobs on the chicken sheds etc that you do. I'd expect appeals for the met 4 wheelers as they're special, but not Mk1s, they ought to be bread and. Butter and funded from revenue.

I did watch it, and very much enjoyed it. I just find it a little worrying that the bluebell can't afford to do routine maintenance out of its normal budget like we can.

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There has been replacement - a long section at the top of Freshfield Bank has been relaid in about three separate relays (one of which was shown in the film); the bit through Lindfield Wood; the section round Leamkand Bridge was done last winter; and all the platform roads and mainline points through all the stations have been replaced over the last few years, for starters.

The bottom line is running a railway is expensive. I can think of one major railway that has excellent track but has been perennially short of engines; another that is currently short of rolling stock and has an appeal out to rebuild the underframes of several previously operational carriages. So it feels to me that numerous railways are in a similar position, the only difference being where the pinch point manifests itself.

Tom

 

Come on Tom, this is an embarrassment, you know it is and people would be much more sympathetic if it were admitted to be. Nowhere gets everything right all of the time.

Paul H

 

I think you will find that the list of railways which can fund track replacement out of operating revenue is rather shorter than the ones who cannot. If you look at the Bluebell Railway Trust's accounts, they paid out £323,000 last year for track replacement. The only difference this year is the (or more of an?) overt appeal for funds. On a more general note, the Bluebell Railway PLC made an accounting loss of £230,000 in 2016 on a turnover of £3.6m. In the same period, the Trust shelled out £960,000 which I assume was all to the railway, which means in very broad terms that the cost of running the Bluebell Railway was about £1.2m more than what it was able to support from operations (presumably the Trust will not admit that any of their grants were other than essential). Now this is not intended to single out the Bluebell Railway, as its peers are all reliant on donations, which are probably reasonably predictable within a broad range, and just as real a source of revenue as money through the ticket office.

 

I wonder what the situation is with the other heritage railways which inherited their track from BR? Ploughman will be able to give a more accurate answer but I think the vast majority of NYMR track has been relaid once, some twice. SVR, KWVR, NNR(part), GCR(part) MHR (part) KESR (part), SDR, IOWR (part), LHR, ELR? There must be more?

 

Exactly, especially when evermore heavy locos started to be introduced as well as more intensive use. The line SP to HK was a country branch line with aging track and shallow formation in the first place.

However even so I volunteered at SP through the 70s and the track still was and rode like a billiard table after 10 to 15 years of Bluebell ownership. It had been mothered and kept in top order by the ex BR ganger plus helpers. Then came the larger heavier locos and the paid PW staff eventually got the bullet. I have long stopped volunteering on the BB but still a Shareholder and Member and when a mate complained PW volunteers had to pay for the petrol to put in the track tools/wickhams etc was not surprised the track became so poor that sons girl friend was convinced the coach we were in was off the rails on our last visit.

However they are were they are and now with new brooms at the top hopefully things will improve.

One thing concerning funding routine track renewal with donations however, people generally have only one ten note in their pockets they can donate, If this goes to track it cannot be donated again to other non commercial restoration ideals such as the unique Brighton Directors Saloon or Adams Radial new boiler. Cant see rolling stock like these ever running again.

Brian

 

@burmister Do you please know if the Bluebell have a specific boiler fund for the Adams Radial on the go? It's a loco I'd dearly love to see in steam again.

 

It's a loco that I, Roy Watts, and many others would like to see steam again. But it goes much deeper than just the boiler. New wheels to replace the wrought iron originals being just one of the major needs. Also it's commercial viability (ability to pull full length trains) counts against it.
It's one of the sad realities of commercial preservation.
I can't help thinking that the Adams would be more at home on the Swanage; a more lightly graded line, and one on which those engines actually ran.
Apropros of nothing, I remember a moment in the 1980s, waiting for a train at Freshfield Halt. The Adams, wearing BR black, rolled in with 3 Bulleids.
It was one of those brief moments where the present seemed to melt away for a moment, and we were at Combpyne in 1962...

 

I think the Bluebell Trust has a separate fund for it.

Edit see below : -

According to the 2016 accounts the restricted fund for it totals £ 10,225.00 as at 31/12/16.

 

Deep joy! Only another £390,000 or so to go then? Although Mark's post puts a fly or two in the ointment. The good folks at the Bluebell evidently need to work up an action plan. The options seem to be:
(1) Cosmetic restoration for permanent display, producing howls of anguish
(2) A relatively limited, but still very expensive repair which wouldn't produce anything the ops department would thank you for
(3) Effectively a near total rebuild, again producing howls of anguish, but a loco really only suitable for lighter duties
(4) A totally new build - but I can't imagine that being a course of action which would tick too many boxes at the Bluebell. Aside from potentially recreating the Lyme Regis double headed summer through services at mostorous expense .... why would it?
Have I missed any?

Sounds like 'Palmerston' (or 'Talyllyn' & 'Dolgoch' for that matter) all over again. Not exactly surprising I suppose. You have to wonder at what stage a new build would be preferable to major surgery on a unique survivor. I seem to recall the cost of it's 1970's overhaul (at Swindon IIRC) being rather contentious at the time. Given the apparently comparable issues with the T3 and T9 (and doubtless many others besides), the heritage movement, not excluding the NRM, have some serious thinking ahead.

Swanage occured to me too, but I know 488 is (understandably) extremely close to the hearts of many on the Bluebell. After all, it's been there far longer than anywhere else during it's long life.

Regarding train loads (and playing devil's advocate for a mo), as and when Ardingly or HH gets real, what will that mean for the original HK-SP section? Just thinking out loud .....

 

Wrought iron wheels sounds intriguing. I've never seen these on a loco, only wagons (the ones with open spokes.) So do you mean wrought iron or do you mean cast iron? Then I'm wanting to ask are these wheels flawed or is it simply a persons opinion that such wheels aren't safe to use? Cast iron wheels exist on quite a few industrial locos that are in regular use on heritage railways. Most Austerities have them, I believe. I'm genuinely interested.

 

Stroudley used them on his "A" class I believe and some at least of those currently in use (again so I believe) retain the original wheel centres. One of the Bluebell pair has (I think) had these replaced but this is largely academic as neither of them is operational.

PH

 

I recall reading that the A (Terrier) class wheels were cast as individual spokes, with each casting containing the relevant portion of wheel boss and rim. Is that total codswallop? If not, are replacement wheels of the same, or more conventional construction?