West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Hello Steve

I note your idea that a change of structure to a charity owning the operating company and thus the charity providing direction to the operating company is offered as a means of improving the current situation.

I do not understand how you expect this to be achieved.

nor do I see what benefit it might bring to the WSR

I can see that the model of a membership charity might allow the working members to have more influence in the way that the WSR operated and developed but this seems to be a very big hammer to apply to the matter of how to influence change.

Please could you explain how you see this being an advantage in some detail rather than as a concept

Jeff Price

 

What seems to be needed is vision!

 

If, in my working life, I'd been the manager who had responsibility for this area then quite frankly I'd have been ashamed of myself.

 

Hi Jeff

I don't have the "detail" but it is clear the concept works well on other railways and other areas concerning heritage. I think it would be good if we commentators and the boards of the WSR organisations were willing to consider alternatives. Unless of course everything is OK as it is...

Steve

 

Accepting that Dunster yard is a work site, a tidy-up by volunteers could help. This could be achieved without much expense by PW identifying what is rubbish, and what is scrap with a value. Call for volunteers to extricate and sort the stuff, and sell the scrap. For a start, an easy win would be for a few people to tidy the surface between the running line and the cattle dock. It should not take more than a day? I'd volunteer myself if it didn't take me a 5 hour drive and an overnight stay or two!
No need to reorganise the PLC into a charity to achieve this !
Robin L

 

Steve

Rather a simplistic view that such a move would solve the issues you perceive regarding the WSR because such a structure works OK elsewhere on other railway.

These other railways may well have started from a different point.

Change is always possible BUT you have not made a case at all.

Why would people buy into such a process ??? No clear benefit offered for all that work.

Jeff Price

 

Recent experience of offers of help to the Infrastructure Department (made directly and privately without fanfare) has not been universally positive.

The level of change - to move the Department away from Dunster - can only be a Board level initiative.

Robin

 

You may be right, Jeff. Perhaps you feel it is all OK with the company having absolute management sovereignty over (almost) everything and anything? Even though it seems they are unable to deal with the low priority tasks? Maybe that's OK for you.

Yes other railways may have started from a different point - but that's no reason to assume we have to stick with what we started with (which was intended for a very different railway we have today). Far better we have the right structure so that our railway can truly grow and prosper.

Why would people buy into the present process? What are the clear benefits of it? We're all working hard for it. But something's not right. I know Dunster Yard is being hammered as an example but heck that is the view our passengers get from the window. Is that the best we can do after 40+ long years?

Steve

 

Steve

You witnessed the difficulties that the membership of the WSRA had in bringing change to a charity that had disconnected from its membership and contact with its prime objective.

You and the WSRA membership also saw how effective such a hijacked?? miss directed?? disconnected??? - however anyone may wish to view the underlying issue - charity were at providing over site and management of their own, wholly owned trading company - well out of reach of the membership and at times trustees who were trying to effect change with that charity owned trading company.
£500,000 to £ 1,000,000 blown on vanity and ineffective projects - cash lost to the WSR never to be seen again, just thrown to the wind
4561 - the £160,000 Mk 1, the rather awkward QB consist with its power supply coach for a 20 mile long railway

The charity membership had a bloody hard and long fight that wasted everybody's time, money and energy - 3 years plus? - some people never lived to see the end of it..............

SO please explain how a charity owning the operating company is so much better??

At least as an independence company the PLC was able to stand against the onslaught of the charity and we are free from a rash of track side lodges and other excesses that would have happen had a charity run the company and owned the track bed.

Please explain how it would be the right structure rather than the one you prefer.

Jeff

 

Ah, Jeff, I now understand your position and your opposition to change. However. The charitable organisation (and its objects) I have in mind does not yet exist.

I will try to answer one of your questions above. A charity owning the operating company would leave the latter to do what it does best - run the railway - whilst the charity manages and executes the vision.

Steve

 

Changing tack a bit, my oldest son & I were discussing walking the Coast Path either from Watchet or Blue Anchor to Minehead and/or the Mineral Railway from Washford to Watchet.

There used to be/still is a boon on walks from WSR Stations, how about something on the website and/or as a leaflet about doing these walks, perhaps with an associated ticket? Possiby which could be stamped at Blue Anchor/Minehead to say you had done it??

Another attraction for another market?

 

Just been checking.
You are more right than I was.
The Whistle Boards are working out at about £60 each.
Its the Gradient boards that are about £100 with new figures and bars for the numbers.

 

I appreciate your comments, my original comments were made with my tongue firmly in my cheek however, there is no emoji for that...

PS
Living in Yorkshire I spend quite a lot of time at the NYMR, I shall in future appreciate the 'Whistle' signs even more now

 

There are books available from the shops.

Also some of the station masters did a couple of leaflets a year or so ago. Here are the maps I prepared at the time:
http://www.wsr.org.uk/r-map-md-dr-ba.htm
http://www.wsr.org.uk/r-map-ce-sr.htm
I'm not sure if the leaflets are still available.

Perhaps the Watchet and Washford station masters might like to arrange a leaflet for the Mineral Line walk? I'm always available for a bit of mapping.

Steve

 

Steve

I am not opposed to change but any such a major change of structure needs justification in depth so that all can buy into it.

You have an idea, untested, that you see capable of delivering your separation of operation and vision.

Meanwhile the separation of supporting charity and operating company keeps both parties keen to work with the other rather than one overbear on the other as could be the case.

Things will never suit everybody.

However happy to see the details of your concept and be persuaded of its virtue

Jeff

 

Thank you for those

Would it be possible to have a 'walks' section, possibly under 'plan a visit'?

 

I quite agree with what you say, Jeff, except (1) the idea is not untested and (2), The present set-up here may be better at the moment but I think you were once very vocal on the idea of "One Railway" and yet you now acknowledge there are two parties. What I suggested earlier would be the "One Railway" you desire(d). I appreciate what may work well elsewhere may not here but I think the idea (not mine by the way) is worth looking at. Maybe we can have a chat about this when next our paths cross, Jeff. I owe you a cuppa.

Steve

 

I didn't accuse anyone of laziness. I am sure that the PW Dept is very hard working. However the impression that their site gives to the uninformed public is still that they are a bunch of lazy so-and-sos who can't be bothered to tidy up, which is obviously unfair. Putting aside the possibility that Dunster Yard is intended to look like it does, the remaining conclusions are that it got that way because either no-one cares about how it looks, or that people do care, but there has never been enough time allocated to keeping it tidy. Either way it is a management failure. There is very little point expending volunteer time in tidying the yard if it is simply going to revert to its present state because there is never any time to keep the place tidy.

 

I'm sure that most departments are "...quite busy..." but that doesn't excuse the apparent attitude of 'Just dump it there...' . No job is finished until the line is clear and tools and machinery etc. put away. It would not have taken a great deal of additional time or effort to stack/store the surplus materials neatly there and then. Now there is a huge clear up task that no one really wants to do or has time to do. It's a shame that no one realised that not doing the odd 10 or 15 minute tidy stacking at the end of each job could build up over the years into what is now probably something like a months worth of work.

Still, there is one solution for the wood pile... Nov 5th is just around the corner.... (and with the darker nights no one will see the black smoke...)

 

Jeff and Steve,

The particular structure of an organisation is less important than the quality of the people within it. A plc with good people and teamwork will do far better than a charity with a disjointed team, and the reverse could also be true.

The management teams (plural) of the various WSR organisations have struggled to achieve any significant progress over the last decade, partly due to lack of vision, understanding of what makes the railway tick, and strength of management at the very top. They have been distracted by internal squabbling, both within each organisation, and between organisations. The WSRA and the plc have both wasted valuable resources on unrealistic dreams, such as the Southern Gateway, whilst the fabric of the railway suffers as a consequence.

The highest level of management, Board of Directors or Trustees, must have within their ranks sufficient people who know how to run a commercial company, people who know how to operate a heritage railway, people who know how to engage with the paid staff/volunteers, and people who know how to lead with clear guidance. I hope that we are now starting to see some of these skill sets joining the Boards, but more of the highest calibre are needed. Even with this 10 years of decay will take considerable turning around, times may be difficult for a few years at least.

Below the Board the railway deserves management teams who work together for a common cause, there remain some very weak links in the chain of command from Board to grass roots level. Topics on this thread have highlighted instances of things that have gone wrong, and that is across all departments, none are immune.

We have plenty of younger (less than 30 years old) paid staff/volunteers who have drive, vision and ability, which is what the railway needs, but some are already demoralised and dropping by the wayside. This cannot continue.

For many years we made excellent progress on a tight budget, compare what was done in the decade after the difficulties of the 80's to what has been done in the last decade.

1990's
Passenger numbers continuously rising.
Minehead, Crowcombe and BL signalled.
Stogumber and BL platforms lengthened.
Significant sleeper replacement of nearly 10 miles of track.
Lineside cleared of scrub and kept tidy.
Carriage sheds, locomotive shed and machine shop built at Minehead.
Significant upgrade to enable heavier locomotives to operate.
Development of the Swindon shed at Williton.
Numerous heavy infrastructure repairs along the line, bridges, culverts, fencing, buildings, platform enhancements.

In the last 10 years the situation has not been so good, and like a government department money has not been spent wisely.
Passenger numbers generally falling.
The general appearance of the railway deteriorating.
Line side vegetation allowed to flourish to the detriment of drainage, track and passenger views.
Few major projects have reached fruition, Williton loop and BL loco canopy, most of the remainder have been due to station groups.

We must not forget that with the right people it can be turned around, it happened in the late 80's and can be done again.

Andy.