Current and Proposed New-Builds

I think it is unlikely. Playing devil's advocate, I'd try the following questions to see how such a proposal stacked up?

1) Which would be an easier restoration - a derelict 2-10-0, or converting a derelict 2-10-0 into a 2-8-0, including building a new boiler?

2) Which would be more useful if restored?

3) Which would be more likely to enthuse sufficient people to provide support (financial or otherwise)?

Question 1 - seems pretty obvious to me that neither is easy, but restoring as originally built would be easier. As a 2-8-0, you have effectively just as much general restoration to do, plus all the additional complexity of redesign and creating a new boiler.

Question 2- they would both be big locos, so best suited to larger / hillier railways if completed. I can't imagine that there is a sufficiently large niche that would say a 2-8-0 would be ideal for a railway but a 2-10-0 out of the question.

Question 3 - again, you either like WDs or you don't. For those that do, I'm not sure that there is much differentiation in how easy it would be to enthuse people. Just maybe the wider geographic spread of the 2-8-0s might tip the balance, but I suspect it would be small.

All of which suggests to me that either proposal would be hard, but I really can't see a proposal to convert a 2-10-0 to a 2-8-0 would be the magic bullet that saved it from demise.

Tom

 

I actually like this idea. I preferred the 2-8-0 version and they were very much more numerous

 

What derelict WD 2-10-0s?

 

Ditto, hence the question.





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Discussion here from some years back:
https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/wd-2-10-0-austerity-greece.29284/page-2

Posts 26/27 give details of why WD 2-10-0 to WD 2-8-0 is not feasible

Keith

 

Listed here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEK_Class_Λβ

Keith

 

I understand that restoring the 2-10-0 would be the simpler option, but given what I was reading regarding people's appreciation for 90733, and given my own soft spot for the 2-8-0 version I wondered (hypothetically) if it was possible.

I don't believe that people are ambivalent between the two variants. The 2-8-0 was more numerous, there for more widely remembered, and more widely published in the publications we all consume. Personally I also think it's aesthetically better resolved. Just something beautifully workaday British about a filthy WD 2-8-0.

We also have two 2-10-0's over here in good hands. If somebody wanted another then they have had ample opportunity to rescue one from Greece, but there they still languish. It was just a thought that maybe/just maybe a 2-8-0 project could save another before the rest are gone forever. Plus it would supply a spare 2-10-0 boiler to help out Uk pair.


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Interesting thank you, question answered!


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Yes, WD 2-8-0s have always been one of my favourite loco classes. Always thought it was odd that none of the 733 which ran here were saved, or why none got to Barry

 

Ah, didn't realise there were so many still in Greece, I thought it was just the couple of "operational" ones.

 

Perhaps just as (comparatively) easy to break as to build? Simplified construction may have been a double-edged sword.

 

Probably because they were common, filthy, freight engines and not shiny exciting passenger locomotives.

Barry is another question, other yards certainly seemed to take them in their droves.


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How long is the list of locomotives that were preserved direct from British Railways though? I thought there weren't that many. Amongst GWR and constituents my impression is the vast majority were via Barry or via industry/London Transport, neither of which were options for the WDs.

 

Industry or London Transport wasn't an option, agreed, but it seemed a bit odd that none of a 733 strong class, which lasted in traffic until 1967 got to Barry.

 

The Bluebell have several, including both Terriers, the E4, Adams Radial, Blackmoor Vale (though first bought from BR into preservation elsewhere), the NLR tank, the Dukedog, (I think) 2 of their 3 P class, locos from the sometime Ashford collection (deffo the C & H classes) and the 01 entered preservation without seeing a scrapyard, even if it's preservation history is convoluted!

David Shepherd's locos, the Swanage M7, IWSR O2 and "Britannia" and "Repton" were sold direct into preservation. I believe the Fairburn pair at L&HR were also.

Over the water, ex-GNRI "Merlin", "Slieve Gullion" and Q*° class 4-4-0's plus ex-GSR classes 100*, 101 (2 locos), 461, IN1* (old WCR No.5), PN2 (old T&D No.5) and ex-UTA class WT and "Lough Erne" came direct to preservation. (So did an ex-C&L DN2, but that's yet to return from the States!). As none of the ex-CDR survivors have steamed in preservation, I'm leaving them out.

* possibly cheating. These locos kicked around OOU for yonks before steaming.
° No.131 has to be a strong candidate for "loco luckiest to survive". No-one seems to know quite how or why it did! The CIÉ seem at first to have simply overlooked scrapping it, later took pity and decided to plinth it at Dundalk until it got in the way of a station redesign after which it lay around dismantled, with parts in at least three separate locations (during which period the tender succumbed) until RPSI gathered up the bits, sorted out some ownership issues and took it to safety at Whitehead. Finally overhauled and passed steam test within the last couple of years, it awaits a tender before hitting the rails in anger once more.

 

"Clan Line", 41298

 

I don't know if Billy Butlin's collection counts as they were bought for static display before passing into preservation proper.

How did I forget to add TR Nos 3 & 4, W&L Nos.1 & 2 and VoR Nos 7, 8 & 9 !

 

Just about all the pre-grouping Southern locos went straight from service to preservation.

Off the top of my head, there are about 31 survivors, and I think only the two Urie S15s went via Barry: the other 29 were either preserved direct from the Southern Railway (Stroudley B class "Gladstone", the Adams T3; Terrier No. 82 "Boxhill"); sold to industry and thence preservation (the Stroudley E1 "Burgundy"; two of the Wainwright P tanks, 178 and 753; Adams B4 "Normandy"); or else were preserved direct from BR (the rest of them - though in some cases they have gone via several preservation-era owners on the way).

Amongst post-grouping SR locos, Bulleid Pacifics 21c123 "Blackmore Vale"; 34051 "Winston Churchill" and 35028 "Clan Line" definitely went straight from BR to preservation, as did all three of the preserved Schools class (925 / 926 / 928) and King Arthur "Sir Lamiel". There may be others.

Tom

 

All ex LNER ones, with the exception of 61264. On the LMS, top of my head, both Princesses and all three Duchesses, two Jubilees, both Scots, the Compound, one 8F, both Fairburn tanks and the Stanier 3 cylinder one, 42500, the Ivatt class 4, 43106, the Super D, and some of the Black 5s, 45000, 45212, 45305, 44767, 44871, 45110, possibly more, and all remaining ex LMS Scottish pre grouping.