Paint froth question!

Following on from the (many!)deviations into liveries we get on here, I was a bit bored yesterday afternoon, and drifted off into thinking about pre nationalisation liveries, and a gap in my knowledge annoyed me!

It concerned the GWR, and my question is, did they do any locos black?

As far as I can tell, they were all green, the only difference between passenger and freight locos being that the passenger ones were lined. Is this correct for the 1923-47 period?

 

Certain freight locomotives were black, 28's ROD's etc.

 

La France

 

Some were black during the war but all green even the 28XX and RODs. passenger locos could be lined but Manors and granges were unlined.

 

Yes I thought this was correct as I've never seen a GWR loco, in GWR livery, in preservation that was anything other than green.

 

I should have said 'during the war' (like Uncle Albert) in my original response.

However, not my photo



3822 at Didcot, think she still is in black?

 

Personally, I always think that 28xxs and 2885s carry black livery rather well, unlike many other GWR types that received black livery in BR service. Just my opinion.

 

Always thought she carried the Miracle Express Black livery well as well....

 

I agree, they are beautiful things in whatever livery, but the black does suit them.

Would be interested to see a King or Castle in Black just to see how it looked, I suspect a King would look bloody sinister!

 

To summarise :

Passenger locos (Saints/Stars, Castles, Kings) were always Green and lined. All other locos were plain green with the exception of Halls which, while classed as 'mixed traffic', were expected to spend most of their time on passenger duties so were lined as well.

During the war the raw materials for the green were getting hard to find and as an economy measure some purely freight locos (28xx, RODs and I think Aberdares) were painted plain black. They did not stay that way very long once normal circumstances were restored.

So "did they do any locos black? " - yes - but not many or for very long.

 

Post 1923 there were basically three variants of GW livery excluding wartime black. Initially express passenger locos were middle chrome green with orange and black lining and polished copper cap chimney and safety valve bonnet. Lettering was Great (crest) Western on the tender. Lesser types and all tank locos were unlined green and painted chimney and safety valve bonnet with Great Western on the tender and tankside but no crest. There was a minor change in 1928 when the circular crest was changed to the more familiar double shield. From 1934 express locos (Grange Class and above) were still lined but the lettering on all locos was changed to the monogram, commonly irreverently referred to as the shirt button.
In 1946 the same general painting rules applied and although middle chrome green was still the official shade the quality of paint was not the same and the shade was more drab. Lettering was changed to G (crest) W for express passenger engines and G W R for everything else.

Officially in WW2 it was unlined green for all apart from freight locos which were unlined black
but it appears to have depended on the supply of paint! The Swindon finish was very durable however and many locos survived to BR days in pre war and In the case of a few tank locos in the pre 1934 style. This was surprising as there was no paintshop at Swindon and all painting was done either in the erecting shop or outside.

It's a shame that in preservation almost all the preserved tank locos are incorrectly finished with their owners insisting on polished safety valve bonnets and in some cases lining too.

 

Perhaps I may be permitted to make a couple of additions to the above? Re the change of crest in "1928" (GW Way has it as 1927 but no matter) - the "circular crest" was known as the garter. I think you'll also find that lining was applied only to Halls and above, Granges being unlined under the GWR. Due to a shortage of transfers during WW2 some minor classes were lettered in an 'economy' GWR with painted yellow block letters. I understand that this was carried out at works other than Swindon.
Ray.

 

Agreed. Owners are at liberty to apply whatever paint and frills they like, of course. And I'm sure the general public like it too. But it kind of spoils the time bubble illusion for me.

 

Unfortunately 6015 hasn't survived.

 

And then of course there were the crimson lake GWR locos...........

 

Again not my picture, not sure if 6697 remains like this?

 

Are you referring to Hogwarts Castle...?

 

A County Tank in 1909, a couple of dozen or so auto fitted 0-4-2T and a few 0-6-0 tanks, some were also brown when all over brown was the carriage livery.

 

Nah, Swindon built 46521 was maroon for a while, well during the filming of 'The Seven Percent Solution'

 

Some GWR locomotives were covered in plating, and made to look coaches, and as such, were given full GWR Chocolate & Cream carriage livery, with full pseudo panelling and fully lined out