Sentinel works no 6807 Gervase

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

By all means! I'll e-mail them to you if you like. Here are links for those that may not have seen them :

http://ronfisher2.fotopic.net/p34854129.html

http://ronfisher2.fotopic.net/p34854130.html

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Thanks for the photos. I've dug out a colour slide I took at Coalbrookdale c 1964 when there were a few historical relics and a small museum surrounded by a functioning ironworks. The Sentinel (as in the second photo) shows in the background, out in the open but quite well painted in light grey. No cab or tanks, just the cylinder unit and boiler. The boiler looks rather strange with that spiral groove round it. Were all Sentinel boilers like that?

This photo and the second photo above suggest that this Sentinel had solid cast wheels, no coupling rods and inside frames. I take it this was the one rebuilt from a Coalbrookdale-built 040ST (like No 5 which survives in more or less original form). According to the IRS Handbook G it would be Sentinel No 6185 of 1925.

There's another Sentinel listed - 6155 of 1925 (rebuilt from a MW 040ST - like Gervase - and acquired by Coalbrookdale Co in 1930). This is listed as going to the Colne Valley Rly in 1975, but doesn't seem to be there now. Is that the other Sentinel now at Ironbridge?

Regards

Tom Burnham, Staplehurst

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Found some photos on the WWW of Gervase in 1960 at British Industrial Sands, Redhill:

http://www.53a-pix.co.uk/picture/BIS-Ge ... 280560.jpg

http://www.53a-pix.co.uk/picture/BIS-Ge ... 280560.jpg

Shows a casing over the 'engine' and some dumb buffers presumably for internal wagons.

Regards

Tom Burnham

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Fascinating stuff, incidentally I suspect that the locomotive that replaced Gervaise is an RSH diesel now preserved at Tanfield!

On another note though, according to the F W Harman book on SG Mannings Gervaise was turned out on 28 December 1899, W/No. 1472, for J S Peters Merstham Lime Works. It was a 'H' Class 0-4-0ST dimensions, according to the same book as follows:

Cylinders 12in x 18in
Wheel dia. 3ft
Wheelbase 5ft 4in
Boiler dia. 2ft 9in, length 8ft 3in, heating surface 374sq ft
Water capacity 450 gallon
Length 17ft 2in
Width 7ft 6in
Height 10ft 3in
Weight, empty 16tons 7cwt. loaded, 19tons 17cwt

Given that there aren't any preserved 'H' Classes, is Gervaise not uinque in that regard too? What's left of the rear axle? I guess the rear crank pins were chopped down when it was turned into a VBT?

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

To be honest, I never thought about it's original identity, so I didn't check for MW features when we did an initial survey/viewing. I will have a look at some point, but I suspect that you are right, and there will be virtually no original features left. I don't see any potential for it being rebuilt as an H class, given the astounding cost of doing that. It would not be a service engine for most lines. The KESR is fundraising for several other exciting projects, and it is easier to get an NHS dentist than HLF funding these days.....

By the way, has anyone got a picture of an H class tank? I can't find one anywhere....

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

There are two H class Manning Wardles preserved but, alas, not in this country. 1781/1907 and 1896/1916 are both preserved in Australia. I don't know what their present operational status is. Grand machines!

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Sorry, did know about the foreign based machines, unique in the UK then, and I can't imagine either of those two steaming again.

At least there's something to take measurements from if drawings can't be found!

Anyone know if the axleboxes still exist?

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

I stand corrected then, lets hope she does steam again.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

According to the Australian Steam website 1781 was restored in the 1980's, so presumably is capable of being steamed again (given the usual constraints of inclination, time and money)

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The photograph referred to (this photograph) is quite interesting. The manhole in the barrel is most unusual for a locomotive boiler - more reminiscent of traction engine practice. I don't think it was a Manning original design to have this feature. Any comment, anyone?

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Perhaps the barrell was replaced? It's certainly a scary place to have a manhole door, pretty useless unless the tank is off too of course but plenty of reinforcement around the hole at least I guess.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Yeah, just think how you could nip it up when first steamed or what happens if the joint starts to leak. Tank off with all that entails, for starters!

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Though manhole doors are not uncommon on Marine boilers, even on the Steam drums of Water tube boilers that operate at c.800psi / 800 deg/f

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True, but they are in the ends of the drums, not the sides.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Also there are industrial steam drums operating at even higher pressures than typical marine boilers - just looked at one at 121barg (approx 1780psig). The manhole on that is seriously heavy duty!

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

Oh if we're going down that road I've seen one on top of the barrell pracitically in the firebox water space!

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

has anyone got any recent photos of the frames and wheel sets.

Did i read correctly that the coupling rods still exist.

 

Re: Kent and East Sussex 'GERVAISE'.

We have three year old pics of the frames, wheelsets, inner and outer boiler/firebox, and the cab, or what is left of it. Unfortunately, I don't have them, and the guy that does is on an early night as he's wagon painting tomorrow!

The coupling rods also still exist, as do certain odds and ends. The backhead fittings do not, nor the cylinders and valve gear, and the water tank is a distant memory.....