LSWR T3 563

It certainly made a mockery of their advertised claims about accuracy (as did a number of other glaring inaccuracies).

 

4945!

 

Next you’ll be quoting the seat number Harry Styles was sat in!

 

Shame 1381 wasn't finished. A full open coach that was in service during the war.

But sorry, completely off topic!

 

I'm not sure if wreck is the correct word, but investigations a number of years ago by the RPSI (on behalf of a benefactor) revealed a number of major (expensive!) problems with the loco if it was ever to steam again. This included a new wheel centre, a new tender tank and a new boiler barrel or complete boiler/firebox (can't remember which), this is all in addition to the run of the mill overhaul costs and any issues with the cylinder block once it could be fully accessed. The potential for a massive bill made the benefactor think again...

Back on topic...

Keith

 

my point is that every time that loco is mentioned, someone pops up to say "it's worn out, don't even think about it". .Well I suspect that 563 could be just as worn out.

 

True enough! We'll just have to wait to see what the Flour Mill boys say...

Keith

 

Nothing it seems is impossible nowadays, just money and skills required

 

Yes there is no doubt that 563 can be restored to working order. The only questions are what will it cost, and how much originality will have to be lost in the process.

 

Years ago engines were considered to be beyond restoration due to what now are things restorers are well used to fixing, boilers can be totally rebuilt 60103 for instance, how much of that boiler is original? i would say very little , didn't 850 have virtually a new boiler? engines have received new cylinders, a whole new A1 has been built, So compared to the early days when replacing a tube plate was deemed terminal, we can and do far more, its a matter of how deep your pockets are, So there is no practical reason why 563 can't be restored to steam, its a financial one its having the fund raising behind it will be essential i'm hoping that the strip down just shows an engine that is tired, but in fair condition, certainly not an engine that was fit only for scrap.

 

It will certainly be less involved than a Barry loco, at least its complete

 

Does anyone know what lagging the boiler has? i dare say it may if its never been changed need specialist treatment , were the Southern Railway using asbestos wool boiler lagging in 1945? or will it be what ever was availible,
The strip down will be very interesting for an engineering archeology point of view , As so far even engines such as the NRM Beattie well tank would have had overhauls in BR days, 563's last full overhaul was when?

 

I'm not sure I agree. Many Barry locos had years of component life left in them whereas 563 is possibly totally worn out,

 

What was left of them may have been OK, but the later ones were little more than boiler, wheels and frames. I was involved in the early stages of restoring 45337 and I am certain 563 will need less work than 45337 did.

 

I would guess its last overhaul would have been pre war, just essential maintenance thereafter to keep it going until withdrawal

 

According to Bradley :

"In the autumn of 1938 it was laid aside in store and apart from the Christmas period not steamed again until condemned in March 1939. As with other locos taken out of stock around this date, no attempt was made to break it up on account of the threat of war with Germany. After hostilities commenced, no 563 was shopped at Eastleigh and on 15th December 1939 returned to traffic painted unlined green with cabside numerals."... "dispatched to Basingstoke from whence it was withdrawn in mid-August 1945. Despite the war it was always kept well polished."

It is difficult to know quite the scale of that 1939 overhaul but it was enough to include a repaint. It then received at least some maintenance and seems to have been reasonably well looked after during the 5 years or so of probable light use that followed.

As other have said, no-one quite knows the situation until it gets dismantled - I think nearly everyone has fingers crossed....

 

To further clarify 563's history - again according to Bradley :

"mainly employed carriage piloting or working local pick-up goods, but in Aug 1942 was on several occasions was noted entering Waterloo with vans."

and

Referring to its initial preservation - "after inspecting all those available 563 was chosen for the honour. This was mainly on account of its mechanical condition, although the fact that so few alterations had taken place over the years was taken into account. The only real weakness was the firebox which would require careful handling" ... " In early May 1948 this engine entered shops for general overhaul and repainting in the 1903 livery." A number of 'old style' fittings are listed as being applied - including the stovepipe chimney.

How comprehensive was that 'general overhaul one wonders?? Make of that what you will!!

 

In "Isle of Wight Railways From 1923 Onwards", Maycock & Silsbury state "The SR ceased to manufacture major components for classes 'O2' and 'G6' in 1936 and withdrawls began on the mainland just before the onset of war" (no wonder the IoW fleet was getting well past "tired" during the final four years after the last mainland O2's went at the end of 1962!). Safe to assume this was standard practice as a class passed into obsolecence, I wonder when the comparative date for the T3 was set.

Part of me hopes Eastleigh's fitters got carried away ('Ere Fred, this war could go on for a bit and we've still got a new set of mainframes / cylinders that's just gonna be scrapped if we don't use 'em now) on 563 on the QT! We'll just have to await the verdict from Flour Mills and as others have said, keep everything crossed in the meantime!

 

being somewhat of a rave from the grave should be an advantage when it comes to fundraising.

 

I believe the whole post war overhaul only took five weeks, including time in the paint shop, and there seems to be some doubt as to whether the loco ever ran under its own power unassisted, apart from within station limits (possibly a trial trip from Eastleigh to Micheldever and back was made before going to Waterloo). So I suspect the “overhaul” at that time was the absolute minimum possible to enable it to run. I’d find it hard to believe that the condition is anything other than “beyond knackered”.

Tom