Replica builds for heritage lines.

What would be so terrible about a classic, over-sentimental W.I.B.N. project?

 

But what about all those tours that are not hauling 14 coaches around...... Which is most of them.

 

No - when build it was put straight into service in red oxide livery, un-named. Then, very early in SR days, it was painted in photographic grey and named "Remembrance", as shown in the well-known photographs of the loco at Brighton works with staff grouped in front.



Source: http://www.mybrightonandhove.org.uk/page_id__9932.aspx

Shortly thereafter, it went into the works for its first overhaul and emerged painted in the then SR green, numbered B333 and still bearing its name.



Source: https://transportsofdelight.smugmug...-SOUTHERN-RAILWAY/SOUTHERN-RAILWAY/i-RGJTWRt/

At some point, there was a change to a metal, rather than painted, nameplate - the original is now at Shildon I believe.


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LB&SCR_L_class#/media/File:LBSCR-Lclass.jpg

Followed by rebuilding to N15X:



Source: https://transportsofdelight.smugmug...-SOUTHERN-RAILWAY/SOUTHERN-RAILWAY/i-H5dqQrr/

The Marsh Umber livery was never carried by the loco.

Tom

 

If you have to ask the question, you won't like the answer, which is that a project has to be reasonably practical if it is to keep going past its first general overhaul.

With ever increasing overheads and difficulties in pathing it is very likely that such events will become fewer but bigger.

PH

 

If talking 'main line', the thought occurs that at least all that electronic train management gear should fit in the dummy side tanks of the 'L', though I'm none too sure there'd be any slots on the class's former stamping grounds to let it loose anywhere historically appropriate, plus you'd need additional water capacity (in the form of a suitably converted tanker truck or carriage) before it could be much use for any longish runs on the big railway.

Of course, if someone is bonkers enough to stump up a couple of million, there's little to stop them building whatever takes their fancy, assuming favourable results from the psychiatric report the putative builder's family (and bank manager) are bound to insist upon .... and the best of luck to 'em!

 

Pity there is no "gold medal" button to press for posts like this!

Paul H

 

Why?

If the builders weren't discouraged by practicality, why should the overhaulers be? (I see Didcot's broad gauge Firefly is about to commence its first overhaul.)

 

And it has been out of use for ages. See post 445 above,

PH

 

It last operated in late 2014.

 

Well there we are. Seemed longer.

PH

 

And the question was, why's that so terrible? If someone chooses for sentimental reasons to build an impractical, expensive reproduction that serves no useful purpose, why's that a terrible thing?

Here's an example:



The Albatros D III (OEF) 253.24 built by Koloman Mayrhofer in Austria between 2007 & 2012. An iffy design when originally built, quickly superseded by the DV. Expensive to build, tricky to operate. Zero useful purpose today. So why do it? Pure sentimentality. To see a type that had been extinct for 94 years fly again.

Terrible? Not to me.

 

It's much easier to recreate and operate a standalone car or aircraft. But, unless proposing a static museum exhibit such as North Star or the Tussaud's Dean single then the real question re nostalgia is what experience are you trying to recreate and where?

The locomotive is only part of an overall picture.

A 1950s express on the mainline? A complete Welsh or Devon narrow gauge railway? A 1930s (for example) branch line? An industrial or railway museum with a working replica of a particularly historically significant loco on a demonstration line (though this is perhaps more education than nostalgia)? There are many answers but the question must be asked.

 

In general terms the replica aircraft or car is attempted by an individual. The replica locomotive is not. So far I am struggling to think of a single full size replica railway locomotive that has been entirely funded by one person (is there one??). So the issue of practicality arises because not in sheer engineering terms, but in terms of what is attractive to enough people to fund it. Hence the A1 being the first out the box and the Patriot ticking along very nicely.

Now, if we are talking about a complete replica, then I would love to see the Leek and Manifold, but since the Lynton and Barnstable are already ploughing a similar furrow, if I were to win the euromillions in a big way, I could be tempted into sending them a cheque for £10M, as long as they let me be on the footplate of the first train. "Dear Alan Keef, please accept this order for 3 replica 2-6-2Ts and 20 carriages."

 

A very interesting post. In many ways the old car world is tougher than the old train one. You can buy new build Locomobile steamers, curved dash Oldsmobiles or, for that matter, Type 35 Bugattis that are substantially as the originals. They will never be eligible for the events and competitions the old ones are.

PH

 

Yes PH, that tank looked good for 80 Tonnes empty to me...

 

You're arguing that it's impractical. I agree.

I'm arguing that if this impractical thing happened, it wouldn't be terrible. I'd love to see it. I think the likelihood is vanishingly small, and that in itself is one of the reasons it would be wonderful.

To be clear, I'm not arguing it should happen. I'm certainly not offering to make it happen. I'd just like to see it.

 

Thanks a lot for your information Tom!

To me it`s lovely-looking engines no matter how livery.

Kind regards

Knut

 

Apologies - missed this reply back then
The coast line was more sharply curved, had steeper gradients and also had to contend with Ravenscar Tunnel, which was steeply graded, curving and usually wet, , in the southbound direction. That was why load 5 on the coastal route, which was what I was referring to, not the present NYMR, was imposed. I agree; an L1 should be able to lift load 7 over the NYMR

 

I am sure that it is Bert Perryman's. I think the plate below the name carries and inscription in remembrance of the locomotives built at Brighton works but I cannot remember the exact wording

 

In point of fact, the word 'terrible' wasn't used in my post. I was just pointing out that what gets built by thems as can afford it is entirely a matter of choice of thems what can afford it .... and get away with actually doing it!

I think it a great shame that no LBSCR I3 made it to preservation, on the grounds that this was the class (from a smallish railway) which convinced the mighty LNWR of the benefits of superheating. Does that make the I3 a suitable candidate for resurrection? To some, undoubtedly so, although my own question is "How much use would this class be to a heritage line?". With it's express diameter drivers, I'd suggest "not all that" is the honest answer.

If a 20th century Brighton tank became a 'must have', I'd head for the Maunsell rebuild of Marsh's first atlantic tank, the I1x, as it's smaller drivers are far better suited to 25mph plodding. One certainly would look right at home on the Bluebell, which was just the sort of secondary line where these useful locos earned their keep right through Southern days and on into BR ownership, until the advent of the designs of Fairburn and Riddles.

If it's plugging a significant gap in LBSC loco history (leaving aside my own admitted preference for a Billinton K class), it'd have to be a Stroudley D1, which comes with the added bonus that the tender version (class D2) shares so many components that you've scope for recreating two classes for probably appreciably less than the all up price of a 'baltic', plus the folks in operations and the workshop departments won't hurl heavy objects at you every time you pass by. In fact, as some I1's were built using components from withdrawn D1's, that's a whole bunch less in the way of drawings, patterns, castings etc. for a third new build. That's rather a lot more 'bang for your buck', wouldn't you say?

So, if it simply has to be a 'baltic', please don't let me stop you, just beacause I reckon you could have a D1 and D2, plus be well on the way to an I1x (any of which would be more useful to a heritage line) for the same outlay. It's all just a pipe dream anyway .... at least until it isn't!!